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good afternoon welcome to nasa

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headquarters i'm dr michael new i'm the

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astrobiology discipline scientist here

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and it's really my pleasure and honor to

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introduce our speaker for today dr ron

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ormlund who's the senior research

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scientist at the united states

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geological survey

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to give you his sort of scientific vital

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statistics ron has published over 150

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papers

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on topics such as methanogenesis which

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is how microorganisms generate methane

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he's also published on a large amount on

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how metals

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are cycled in the earth using about by

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microorganisms

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he's done most of his work in places

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that

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you wouldn't necessarily expect there to

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be a lot of life places like big soda

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lake nevada searles lake and mono lake

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these are very very salty very alkaline

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lakes full of metals and yet there's a

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lot of life there

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ron has spent much of his career

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cataloging the diversity of this life

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and how

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it makes its living using these

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supposedly toxic metals

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he i didn't know this until today but he

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has five patents to his name about

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bioremediation and how you can use

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microorganisms to help our world

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he was has a singular honor of having

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been elected both a fellow of the agu

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and voted by popular science magazine as

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having one of the 10 worst jobs in

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science because of the

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odor first vapors of his field sites

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he asked me to make sure to point out

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that the these vapors have probably

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affected his brain because today seems

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to think

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he is a major general or at least he's

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the admiral of the monolake

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next slide please

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there it is

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no back up

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that's the intro slide

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major general

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yes yes i am the very model of a modern

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major general i have information

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vegetable animal and mineral i know the

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king's in england and i quote the fights

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historical from marathon to waterloo and

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order categorical

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i'm very well acquainted too with matt

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is mathematical i understand equations

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both simple and quadratical about

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binomial theorem i'm teaming with a lot

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of news

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and some very cheerful facts about the

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square of the hypotenuse

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i'm very good at integral and

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differential calculus i know the

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scientific names of beings out on the

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malculus and exactly matters vegetable

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animal and mineral i am the very model

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of a modern major general everybody sing

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before you think i've really gone over

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the edge there's a thread here that i

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want you to follow

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that of course is the

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song of general stanley

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and the pirates of penzance

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the operator of gilbert and sullivan

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these two creative geniuses

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that had their heyday in london

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in the 1880s

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uh where they staged these at the savoy

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theater along with uh

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hms pinafore and mercado they were the

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toast of the town these urbane creative

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geniuses that brought joy

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to london society and to the world

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continually now in fact in san francisco

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they did this

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uh

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performance of the pirates of penzance

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by the lamplighters theater group an

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amateur group it's these

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a wonderful contribution

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all starting in the 1880s

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a contemporary of theirs

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was this gentleman here

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dimitri mendeleev

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and you can tell by the expression

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he was reclusive in brooding

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a loner

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well he grew up in siberia and he

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majored in those things in the wilds of

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siberia along with frostbite and

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eventually became a professor of

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chemistry

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at uh

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saint petersburg university

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and he was obsessed

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and

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in one of the creative leaps of

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this gentleman

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saw order

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in the arrangements of the chemical

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elements according to their mass and

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reactivity

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that really created

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a scaffolding

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for much of

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the incredible advances in physics and

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chemistry

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that went on in the late 19th century

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into the 20th century and into the 21st

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century

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uh

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an incredible leap that i really don't

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think he is fully appreciated even to

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this day this is sort of something we

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all take for granted it was always a

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periodic table that's not true

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until he saw order

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until he was able to establish chemistry

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as a real science from its roots in

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alchemy

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he really did quite

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quite something in fact i i can't help

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but think of uh uh

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spencer tracy putting uh frederick march

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on the stand

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in uh inherit the wind in the famous

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scopes trial and he looks at him and he

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says how do you know god didn't speak

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to charles darwin

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it's a very moving scene and how do you

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know god didn't speak

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to dmitry

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dimitri

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and there's how it all happened

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so

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about 75 years later another

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creative genius appeared on the scene

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this guy

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and

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was deconstruct the order of the uh

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periodic table of the elements in the

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late 50s

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and

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combined it with the music

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of gilbert and sullivan for general

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stanley's song

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to give us the song of the elements

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which is my introduction to this talk

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because it goes as follows i'm not going

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to do the whole thing

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maybe later over a scotch but not now

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there's antimony arsenic aluminum

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selenium and hydrogen oxygen and

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nitrogen and radium in nickel neodymium

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neutrinium germanium iron americium

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ruthenium uranium europium zirconium

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luticium vanadium lanthanum and osmium

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and acetaminophen gold protactinium and

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indium and gallium

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and iodine and thorium and thulium

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enthalam there's a tree in germany

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that's enough already uh the point is

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if you study the what he did he took

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it where's oprah

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uh

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he arranged the elements in in in

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patterns of four that rhymed on the

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fourth and the eighth

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and the first

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floor are actually three of those four

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or could have the next slide please

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are

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of particular meaning to me there's

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antimony arsenic aluminum selenium

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arsenic according to tom lehrer maybe

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not to the mendeleev but according to

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tom lehrer who is my personal god

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uh is the second most important element

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in the song of the periodic table and is

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therefore the most important element

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that i'm going to speak about today

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but three of the four of the first four

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are group 15

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and group 16 elements is antimony

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arsenic aluminum man forget about that

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selenium but tellurium these guys down

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here

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are the are the elements

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that

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i've been concerned with and interested

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and fascinated by for the last 25 years

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and my colleagues uh that i work with as

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well

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old dimitri did not understand why

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they share similar chemical properties

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but the 15 elements all have five

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electrons in their outer shell

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and therefore they have chemical

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similarities and biochemical

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similarities and they will do anything

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beg borrow steel alone to get to the

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magic quantum number of eight

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sixteen elements

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have six electrons

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and they need two and they'll beg borrow

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steel alone to get to that magic number

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so

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selenium which is what started this

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whole mess

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exists in four oxidation states in

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nature cylinate selenite

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the native elemental state and selanhide

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we got into this work

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in the 80s because there was a selenium

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contamination problem in the central

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valley of california

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and in the process of fiddling around

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and futzing around we discovered

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that there's bacteria in the sediments

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anaerobes

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that breathe the stuff

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this is a really really toxic element

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it's toxic because it's an analog of

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sulfur and where sulfur should go if

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there's too much selenium it denatures

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those enzymes

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but we found bugs that breathe it

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they oxidize carbon

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and they reduce

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uh the selenade to elemental selenium

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and actually gets the selenium out of

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this out of the water because it can be

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used for purification purposes

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as time went by we started isolating

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these microorganisms and jody

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switzer-blum came in into my lab with a

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specific purpose to start finding these

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bugs microbes

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and the first one that she pulled out

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was

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sulfurospurilum barnsie named after the

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late ivan barnes at the usgs

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and it grew very nicely on selenade and

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reduced it to the elemental state

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when she was on one of her maternity

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leaves and i don't remember there were

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three of them

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and neet levman came to my lab because i

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had noticed when

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jody was no longer there if i put

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arsenate into the test tube i came back

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in a day it was turbid

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arsenic

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was supporting the respiratory growth of

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these same bugs

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microbes

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and

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we it took off in a bunch of uh labs

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primarily uh the folks at mit

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uh uh with francois morell actually uh

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uh were the first to describe it

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and then we continued on uh with the

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story of arsenic

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uh

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sean found microbes that can breathe

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oxyanions of tellurium and uh tom

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copenhagen is working on the antimony

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story arsenic exists in four oxidation

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states

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eight the plus five

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the plus three is arsenite elemental

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arsenite arsenic and arsine i'm really

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just going to talk about these two

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uh today and the microbes that make a

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living by these redox reactions either

289
00:11:30,550 --> 00:11:28,720
by

290
00:11:33,350 --> 00:11:30,560
pulling off electrons

291
00:11:35,590 --> 00:11:33,360
from arsenic iii using it as food

292
00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:35,600
for chemoautotrophic growth that is they

293
00:11:39,750 --> 00:11:37,600
get their electrons and energy from this

294
00:11:41,030 --> 00:11:39,760
oxidation and they get their carbon from

295
00:11:42,790 --> 00:11:41,040
co2

296
00:11:44,949 --> 00:11:42,800
or the back reaction

297
00:11:47,910 --> 00:11:44,959
of microbes that respire breathe

298
00:11:49,910 --> 00:11:47,920
arsenate and spit out arsenite in the

299
00:11:52,949 --> 00:11:49,920
environment now this is really important

300
00:11:54,790 --> 00:11:52,959
for environmental region reasons because

301
00:11:57,829 --> 00:11:54,800
arsenate

302
00:12:00,870 --> 00:11:57,839
adsorbs to more minerals

303
00:12:03,670 --> 00:12:00,880
than does arsenite and therefore

304
00:12:07,430 --> 00:12:03,680
is hydrologically less mobile while

305
00:12:09,750 --> 00:12:07,440
arsenite is more toxic and more mobile

306
00:12:11,990 --> 00:12:09,760
now the

307
00:12:13,670 --> 00:12:12,000
the reason why arsenic is toxic if you

308
00:12:15,430 --> 00:12:13,680
read the textbooks

309
00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:15,440
in the form of arsenate it's an analog

310
00:12:19,990 --> 00:12:18,160
of phosphate and it inhibits oxidative

311
00:12:22,310 --> 00:12:20,000
phosphorylation

312
00:12:23,269 --> 00:12:22,320
arsenite is even more toxic because it

313
00:12:26,470 --> 00:12:23,279
binds

314
00:12:28,150 --> 00:12:26,480
with sulfur and sulfhydryl groups and it

315
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:28,160
activates enzymes they take critical

316
00:12:36,710 --> 00:12:34,310
once upon a time when the earth first

317
00:12:39,350 --> 00:12:36,720
accreted

318
00:12:40,710 --> 00:12:39,360
we think there was more arsenic

319
00:12:43,110 --> 00:12:40,720
on the earth's surface than there is

320
00:12:43,990 --> 00:12:43,120
today but arsenic is a chalkophilic

321
00:12:46,629 --> 00:12:44,000
element

322
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:46,639
it likes to bind with sulfur

323
00:12:51,269 --> 00:12:49,279
and metals to form things like arsenal

324
00:12:53,590 --> 00:12:51,279
pyrite that are very dense

325
00:12:55,190 --> 00:12:53,600
and are brought down

326
00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:55,200
into the mantle as the earth slowly

327
00:12:58,389 --> 00:12:56,800
differentiated

328
00:13:00,629 --> 00:12:58,399
uh

329
00:13:02,230 --> 00:13:00,639
there's some evidence for this

330
00:13:03,829 --> 00:13:02,240
even in meteorites that are rich in

331
00:13:05,509 --> 00:13:03,839
phosphorus were also very rich in

332
00:13:07,350 --> 00:13:05,519
arsenic so when the stuff was first

333
00:13:08,870 --> 00:13:07,360
forming the earth it was probably a lot

334
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:08,880
of arsenic around

335
00:13:12,069 --> 00:13:10,560
and when our when life got going there

336
00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:12,079
was probably a lot more arsenic around

337
00:13:16,470 --> 00:13:14,160
on the surface than there is today the

338
00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:16,480
reason we see arsenic

339
00:13:21,750 --> 00:13:19,440
is because volcanic forces

340
00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:21,760
at plate boundaries

341
00:13:26,870 --> 00:13:23,839
bring stuff up from the mantle and

342
00:13:28,710 --> 00:13:26,880
distill uh metals and metalloids up

343
00:13:30,790 --> 00:13:28,720
together and that's what forms

344
00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:30,800
deposits of precious metals for example

345
00:13:37,910 --> 00:13:33,519
uh in california nevada and associated

346
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,269
next slide please

347
00:13:45,030 --> 00:13:43,430
arson arsenic in the form of arsenate is

348
00:13:46,949 --> 00:13:45,040
a reasonably good accident i'm not going

349
00:13:48,629 --> 00:13:46,959
to give you the exact numbers but if you

350
00:13:49,750 --> 00:13:48,639
wanted to burn in this case molecular

351
00:13:52,069 --> 00:13:49,760
hydrogen

352
00:13:54,949 --> 00:13:52,079
we can go down this scale this was uh

353
00:13:57,189 --> 00:13:54,959
calculated in a review by diane newman a

354
00:13:59,110 --> 00:13:57,199
number of years ago

355
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:59,120
but oxygen is the strongest going down

356
00:14:04,550 --> 00:14:01,279
to nitrate selenates roughly about the

357
00:14:07,189 --> 00:14:04,560
same arsenate and iron hydroxides are

358
00:14:09,509 --> 00:14:07,199
roughly about the same way below that is

359
00:14:11,350 --> 00:14:09,519
sulfate reduction uh this is as

360
00:14:13,590 --> 00:14:11,360
kilojoules per mole electrons and way

361
00:14:15,430 --> 00:14:13,600
below that is methanogenesis so it's

362
00:14:17,030 --> 00:14:15,440
reasonably respectable

363
00:14:18,790 --> 00:14:17,040
in terms of its

364
00:14:20,790 --> 00:14:18,800
ability

365
00:14:23,030 --> 00:14:20,800
to oxidize

366
00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:23,040
organic carbon and in this case hydrogen

367
00:14:32,470 --> 00:14:29,189
well jody went on to

368
00:14:35,110 --> 00:14:32,480
examine the diversity

369
00:14:37,030 --> 00:14:35,120
of uh bacteria that can make a living by

370
00:14:37,990 --> 00:14:37,040
respiring arsenic

371
00:14:39,350 --> 00:14:38,000
and

372
00:14:41,110 --> 00:14:39,360
we had been working at motorway for a

373
00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:41,120
number of years and

374
00:14:44,550 --> 00:14:42,880
we're aware that indeed there's a lot of

375
00:14:46,629 --> 00:14:44,560
arsenic in this lake let's see we can

376
00:14:48,870 --> 00:14:46,639
get out but we really went for the

377
00:14:51,110 --> 00:14:48,880
purpose of getting selenium bugs

378
00:14:53,030 --> 00:14:51,120
microbes that can respire selenium

379
00:14:55,590 --> 00:14:53,040
because they'd be adapted to the

380
00:14:57,910 --> 00:14:55,600
saline and alkaline conditions of

381
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:57,920
wastewater ponds in the san joaquin

382
00:15:02,629 --> 00:14:59,920
valley and she did these this is an

383
00:15:05,509 --> 00:15:02,639
example of uh

384
00:15:06,629 --> 00:15:05,519
bacillus or senescence celinatus but it

385
00:15:07,430 --> 00:15:06,639
also can

386
00:15:09,110 --> 00:15:07,440
grow

387
00:15:11,110 --> 00:15:09,120
by respiring arsenide and this is just

388
00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:11,120
the growth curve to say well any bug

389
00:15:14,870 --> 00:15:12,480
that can do this does this sort of a

390
00:15:17,750 --> 00:15:14,880
thing they in this case it oxidizes

391
00:15:20,310 --> 00:15:17,760
lactate to acetate and co2 and the

392
00:15:22,150 --> 00:15:20,320
electrons that are generated are passed

393
00:15:23,910 --> 00:15:22,160
to arsenate

394
00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:23,920
and they make arsenide if you take away

395
00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:25,519
the arsenate they don't grow under these

396
00:15:31,189 --> 00:15:26,560
conditions

397
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:33,110
now there were

398
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:36,000
people working on arsenic metabolism by

399
00:15:41,189 --> 00:15:38,880
microorganisms for quite some time

400
00:15:43,990 --> 00:15:41,199
when we came on the scene

401
00:15:46,629 --> 00:15:44,000
simon silver and barry rosen

402
00:15:49,350 --> 00:15:46,639
worked out the intricacies of how

403
00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:49,360
microorganisms various microorganisms

404
00:15:53,430 --> 00:15:51,680
are resistant to high concentrations of

405
00:15:55,189 --> 00:15:53,440
arsenic you put them in media or

406
00:15:57,110 --> 00:15:55,199
surrounding that has a lot of arsenic

407
00:15:58,949 --> 00:15:57,120
the arsenic gets into the cell and they

408
00:16:01,430 --> 00:15:58,959
spit the arsenic back out and that

409
00:16:04,389 --> 00:16:01,440
requires atp that's an energy requiring

410
00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:04,399
process and that's known as uh

411
00:16:08,550 --> 00:16:06,160
the rc system there's an arsenic

412
00:16:10,790 --> 00:16:08,560
reductase that comes in as arsenate

413
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:10,800
and it goes out as austenite they don't

414
00:16:14,069 --> 00:16:12,480
gain anything they actually lose energy

415
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:14,079
from this the cell wants to get rid of

416
00:16:20,829 --> 00:16:17,519
the arsenic it's bad it kills us

417
00:16:25,590 --> 00:16:23,430
uh in fact

418
00:16:30,870 --> 00:16:25,600
it kills us rather effectively

419
00:16:35,829 --> 00:16:33,350
it's was used as a poisoning agent so

420
00:16:38,150 --> 00:16:35,839
widespread in 18th century france become

421
00:16:43,189 --> 00:16:38,160
known it became known as inheritance

422
00:16:43,199 --> 00:16:45,749
mike

423
00:16:50,790 --> 00:16:47,749
then there you are this is was sealed

424
00:16:54,470 --> 00:16:51,910
but then

425
00:16:56,629 --> 00:16:54,480
in the 19th century tests were made

426
00:16:58,870 --> 00:16:56,639
that advanced forensic science that

427
00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:58,880
could detect arsenic and tissue and now

428
00:17:02,949 --> 00:17:00,240
you know if you're having

429
00:17:04,710 --> 00:17:02,959
second thoughts about this

430
00:17:06,390 --> 00:17:04,720
speak to me afterwards we can maybe work

431
00:17:08,789 --> 00:17:06,400
something out but

432
00:17:11,829 --> 00:17:08,799
what we were involved in uh were the

433
00:17:14,230 --> 00:17:11,839
energy generating processes uh in this

434
00:17:16,150 --> 00:17:14,240
case arsenic oxidation partially three

435
00:17:18,470 --> 00:17:16,160
oxidations arsenic five

436
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:18,480
and arsenate reduction processes that

437
00:17:23,429 --> 00:17:20,240
occur on the periphery of the cell in

438
00:17:25,669 --> 00:17:23,439
the in the membranes uh where arsenic 3

439
00:17:27,990 --> 00:17:25,679
is oxidized to arsenic 5 in the

440
00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:28,000
electrons eventually coupled to oxygen

441
00:17:31,110 --> 00:17:30,160
and carbon comes from co2

442
00:17:33,110 --> 00:17:31,120
or

443
00:17:35,909 --> 00:17:33,120
uh the breathing of arsenate in

444
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:35,919
anaerobic environments where arsenate is

445
00:17:40,390 --> 00:17:38,240
reduced to arsenite and the electrons

446
00:17:42,230 --> 00:17:40,400
come from burning of organic matter or

447
00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:42,240
hydrogen or what have you inside the

448
00:17:46,150 --> 00:17:44,240
cell next slide please just want to be

449
00:17:48,630 --> 00:17:46,160
able to differentiate between those

450
00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:48,640
processes now the the enzymes that are

451
00:17:52,710 --> 00:17:50,480
involved in these processes are

452
00:17:55,430 --> 00:17:52,720
molybdenum containing

453
00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:55,440
enzymes of the family of dmso reductases

454
00:18:02,230 --> 00:17:58,799
can everybody say that now one more time

455
00:18:05,350 --> 00:18:02,240
very good uh and they look and taste and

456
00:18:06,549 --> 00:18:05,360
smell alike they're both heterodimers

457
00:18:07,909 --> 00:18:06,559
they all have

458
00:18:09,510 --> 00:18:07,919
a molybdenum

459
00:18:11,110 --> 00:18:09,520
uh in their reactive centers they have

460
00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:11,120
these iron sulfur

461
00:18:15,029 --> 00:18:13,679
uh side groups and iron sulfur crystals

462
00:18:16,950 --> 00:18:15,039
here but they're thought to be

463
00:18:19,750 --> 00:18:16,960
unidirectional

464
00:18:21,750 --> 00:18:19,760
so that in the case of arsenic oxidation

465
00:18:23,909 --> 00:18:21,760
uh arsenic 3

466
00:18:26,230 --> 00:18:23,919
the electrons are pulled this way

467
00:18:28,789 --> 00:18:26,240
through this high potential

468
00:18:31,270 --> 00:18:28,799
cofactor and to the oxygen eventually

469
00:18:32,789 --> 00:18:31,280
through cytochromes and here

470
00:18:34,789 --> 00:18:32,799
it's pushed

471
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:34,799
through to arsenate and arsenide on the

472
00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:36,640
outside of the cell

473
00:18:39,270 --> 00:18:38,240
that's the paradigm we're going to find

474
00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:39,280
out that it's

475
00:18:42,950 --> 00:18:41,200
it's not quite true

476
00:18:44,870 --> 00:18:42,960
uh next slide please

477
00:18:48,390 --> 00:18:44,880
in fact these enzymes don't look like

478
00:18:49,750 --> 00:18:48,400
hot water bottles that was a big finding

479
00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:49,760
they look like

480
00:18:52,870 --> 00:18:51,440
plates of pasta with little meatballs on

481
00:18:55,350 --> 00:18:52,880
them and

482
00:18:56,950 --> 00:18:55,360
this is what arsenite oxidase looks like

483
00:18:59,270 --> 00:18:56,960
this is what

484
00:19:02,230 --> 00:18:59,280
the arsenic reductase from alkali

485
00:19:04,390 --> 00:19:02,240
limnicola or lickey eye looks like

486
00:19:07,110 --> 00:19:04,400
and this is from a review by john stulls

487
00:19:10,150 --> 00:19:07,120
this year earlier this year

488
00:19:12,150 --> 00:19:10,160
yeah that appeared in microbes

489
00:19:14,150 --> 00:19:12,160
and this we are going to

490
00:19:15,270 --> 00:19:14,160
spend a little bit of time on

491
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:15,280
this guy

492
00:19:19,350 --> 00:19:17,520
because it upset the paradigm next slide

493
00:19:22,390 --> 00:19:19,360
please

494
00:19:25,190 --> 00:19:22,400
well when john and i wrote the uh review

495
00:19:29,430 --> 00:19:25,200
in science back in 2003

496
00:19:32,950 --> 00:19:29,440
he assembled uh phylogenetically

497
00:19:34,950 --> 00:19:32,960
in a tree uh what are the microbes

498
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:34,960
that can make a living by breathing

499
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:37,600
arsenic or in the form of arsenate or

500
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:39,600
oxidizing arsenite

501
00:19:43,190 --> 00:19:42,000
and that gave us this tree and the blue

502
00:19:44,470 --> 00:19:43,200
dots

503
00:19:46,870 --> 00:19:44,480
are uh

504
00:19:48,789 --> 00:19:46,880
anaerobic respirers of arsenate

505
00:19:51,029 --> 00:19:48,799
including some uh

506
00:19:54,630 --> 00:19:51,039
pyrobacula in the archaea

507
00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:54,640
and the red squares are autotrophic

508
00:19:59,110 --> 00:19:57,200
arsenite oxidizers

509
00:20:00,710 --> 00:19:59,120
and a couple of things stand out right

510
00:20:02,710 --> 00:20:00,720
away

511
00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:02,720
it's diverse

512
00:20:06,870 --> 00:20:04,880
it's pretty much all over

513
00:20:08,789 --> 00:20:06,880
the microbial map and it's gotten more

514
00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:08,799
diverse and as people have been

515
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:11,600
isolating these microbes over the past

516
00:20:17,909 --> 00:20:17,029
so how does that happen

517
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:17,919
is it

518
00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:20,400
an ancient process

519
00:20:24,149 --> 00:20:23,280
going back several mil billion years

520
00:20:26,470 --> 00:20:24,159
uh

521
00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:26,480
to the beginning of life on the earth

522
00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:29,039
and that it this represents divergence

523
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:31,600
with time of the same theme

524
00:20:37,350 --> 00:20:32,880
or

525
00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:39,430
conjugation

526
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:40,640
what we call

527
00:20:45,430 --> 00:20:43,440
lateral gene transfer uh

528
00:20:46,710 --> 00:20:45,440
in the microbial world

529
00:20:49,510 --> 00:20:46,720
and you might want to try that as a

530
00:20:52,950 --> 00:20:49,520
pickup line at a bar or honey

531
00:20:55,270 --> 00:20:52,960
but really is it is this a recent thing

532
00:20:56,950 --> 00:20:55,280
or is this an ancient process

533
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:56,960
you can't come to a conclusion on that

534
00:21:05,909 --> 00:21:03,190
another word

535
00:21:06,630 --> 00:21:05,919
these arsenate respirers

536
00:21:20,310 --> 00:21:06,640
they

537
00:21:23,909 --> 00:21:20,320
use arsenate except for one guy

538
00:21:27,029 --> 00:21:23,919
strain mlms isolated by shelley hoft

539
00:21:28,870 --> 00:21:27,039
which is an obligate arsenate respire

540
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:28,880
which only uses

541
00:21:32,549 --> 00:21:30,960
hydrogen sulfide as its electron donor

542
00:21:34,710 --> 00:21:32,559
it's a chemoautotroph isolated from

543
00:21:37,110 --> 00:21:34,720
monolake

544
00:21:41,430 --> 00:21:37,120
the other critter that she isolated is

545
00:21:43,830 --> 00:21:41,440
strain mlhe1 alkali limnicolor erlickii

546
00:21:47,110 --> 00:21:43,840
named after henry ehrlich one of the

547
00:21:48,789 --> 00:21:47,120
gods of chief microbiology

548
00:21:51,590 --> 00:21:48,799
and it makes a living by oxidizing

549
00:21:53,830 --> 00:21:51,600
arsenic 3 to arsenic 5 but not with

550
00:21:55,750 --> 00:21:53,840
oxygen it uses nitrate so it's an

551
00:21:58,870 --> 00:21:55,760
anaerobe

552
00:22:00,230 --> 00:21:58,880
next slide please

553
00:22:02,549 --> 00:22:00,240
well

554
00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:02,559
one thing we have out in california and

555
00:22:06,149 --> 00:22:04,320
nevada is

556
00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:06,159
we've got lots of arsenic out there it's

557
00:22:10,230 --> 00:22:08,799
a great place for this soul to work

558
00:22:12,549 --> 00:22:10,240
you don't have too much of that back

559
00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:12,559
here

560
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:19,360
and seals lake uh are the two that

561
00:22:24,070 --> 00:22:21,520
really stick out here mono lake has

562
00:22:27,430 --> 00:22:24,080
200 micromolar arsenic right in the form

563
00:22:29,510 --> 00:22:27,440
of arsenate in its waters its salinity

564
00:22:31,110 --> 00:22:29,520
is about 90 grams per liter and the

565
00:22:32,310 --> 00:22:31,120
composition of those salts are much

566
00:22:34,549 --> 00:22:32,320
different than sea salt so there's

567
00:22:37,590 --> 00:22:34,559
mainly a sodium carbonate system sodium

568
00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:37,600
bicarbonate system rich in sulfate and

569
00:22:41,669 --> 00:22:39,280
very alkaline ph

570
00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:41,679
of these lakes is 9.8 there's a lot of

571
00:22:45,029 --> 00:22:43,600
boron in them

572
00:22:47,350 --> 00:22:45,039
if you evaporate

573
00:22:49,110 --> 00:22:47,360
monolake you wind up with seals lake

574
00:22:51,590 --> 00:22:49,120
which has three to four million molar

575
00:22:53,590 --> 00:22:51,600
arsenate in its waters and its waters

576
00:22:56,070 --> 00:22:53,600
are saturated brines

577
00:22:57,830 --> 00:22:56,080
you can't get any more salt on him

578
00:23:00,470 --> 00:22:57,840
next slide please

579
00:23:01,990 --> 00:23:00,480
and this is a shot of cyril's lake down

580
00:23:04,149 --> 00:23:02,000
in the mojave desert

581
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:04,159
this is my colleague larry miller this

582
00:23:09,909 --> 00:23:06,960
is my colleague tom culp

583
00:23:12,310 --> 00:23:09,919
and this was published in science uh

584
00:23:13,909 --> 00:23:12,320
five years ago

585
00:23:16,710 --> 00:23:13,919
what these guys are standing on you

586
00:23:17,990 --> 00:23:16,720
notice there's no lake here

587
00:23:21,110 --> 00:23:18,000
and it looks like they're standing on

588
00:23:23,830 --> 00:23:21,120
ice they're not they're standing on

589
00:23:25,750 --> 00:23:23,840
a salt crust about yay thick

590
00:23:28,070 --> 00:23:25,760
and underneath the salt crust

591
00:23:30,950 --> 00:23:28,080
is about yay much

592
00:23:33,029 --> 00:23:30,960
salt saturated brine under which there's

593
00:23:34,870 --> 00:23:33,039
sediment anoxic sediment and they were

594
00:23:37,270 --> 00:23:34,880
sampling they were actually they're not

595
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:37,280
fishing uh in minnesota and when they're

596
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:39,280
there it's 100 or so degrees here and

597
00:23:44,390 --> 00:23:42,320
they're chipping through the uh the salt

598
00:23:46,630 --> 00:23:44,400
to get to the sediments to do

599
00:23:49,590 --> 00:23:46,640
various experiments that convinced us

600
00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:49,600
uh that there was a full biological

601
00:23:53,669 --> 00:23:51,360
cycle of arsenic

602
00:23:55,830 --> 00:23:53,679
going on in this length lake both

603
00:23:58,789 --> 00:23:55,840
reduction and oxidation and jody

604
00:24:00,310 --> 00:23:58,799
switzerland isolated a bacterium

605
00:24:03,750 --> 00:24:00,320
from the lake that grows under these

606
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:05,350
next slide please

607
00:24:09,430 --> 00:24:07,200
but let's go to mona lake because it's a

608
00:24:10,470 --> 00:24:09,440
it's a lot more fun uh in fact i i don't

609
00:24:13,190 --> 00:24:10,480
go to

610
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:13,200
searle's lake because i'm i'm a

611
00:24:18,710 --> 00:24:16,480
these guys do it moto lake i like

612
00:24:20,390 --> 00:24:18,720
if you've never been there this is about

613
00:24:24,149 --> 00:24:20,400
15 miles across

614
00:24:28,470 --> 00:24:27,190
this is the current lake

615
00:24:30,549 --> 00:24:28,480
the lake's been there about a million

616
00:24:32,310 --> 00:24:30,559
years it's a closed basin lake water

617
00:24:33,830 --> 00:24:32,320
flows in but not out it goes out by

618
00:24:36,070 --> 00:24:33,840
evaporation and there's an evapo

619
00:24:37,590 --> 00:24:36,080
concentrative effect in this desert

620
00:24:40,789 --> 00:24:37,600
region

621
00:24:42,789 --> 00:24:40,799
that sounds good doesn't it uh but

622
00:24:45,029 --> 00:24:42,799
climate has changed considerably over

623
00:24:48,230 --> 00:24:45,039
the roughly million years

624
00:24:51,190 --> 00:24:48,240
his of its existence in fact back in the

625
00:24:53,350 --> 00:24:51,200
pleistocene roughly 20 000 years ago

626
00:24:54,870 --> 00:24:53,360
the lake covered five times the area

627
00:24:56,789 --> 00:24:54,880
that it does today

628
00:24:58,710 --> 00:24:56,799
and had 18 times more water on it and

629
00:25:01,190 --> 00:24:58,720
now it's in the contractive phase

630
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:01,200
it's surrounded by active volcanoes so

631
00:25:05,750 --> 00:25:03,520
the hot springs

632
00:25:07,750 --> 00:25:05,760
put arsenic laden water into the lake

633
00:25:09,029 --> 00:25:07,760
and it stays in solution that's why

634
00:25:12,549 --> 00:25:09,039
there's so much

635
00:25:14,149 --> 00:25:12,559
arsenic dissolved in the wool lake water

636
00:25:15,190 --> 00:25:14,159
there are volcanic features through the

637
00:25:17,990 --> 00:25:15,200
lake

638
00:25:19,750 --> 00:25:18,000
peoha island which mark twain actually

639
00:25:21,669 --> 00:25:19,760
wrote about in uh

640
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:21,679
uh roughing it i it's a wonderful book

641
00:25:26,070 --> 00:25:24,000
in a wonderful chapter and hilarious

642
00:25:27,669 --> 00:25:26,080
and there's hot springs

643
00:25:28,870 --> 00:25:27,679
uh on the south part that i'm going to

644
00:25:30,710 --> 00:25:28,880
show you

645
00:25:34,549 --> 00:25:30,720
where we did some of the current work

646
00:25:38,470 --> 00:25:36,950
that arsenic respiring bacteria are

647
00:25:40,710 --> 00:25:38,480
important in the ecology of the lake

648
00:25:42,390 --> 00:25:40,720
they burn up about 14

649
00:25:45,269 --> 00:25:42,400
of the phytoplankton

650
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:45,279
organic carbon from primary productivity

651
00:25:49,590 --> 00:25:47,200
so arsenic in this case

652
00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:49,600
uh is important as an ecological oxidant

653
00:25:53,750 --> 00:25:51,600
for mineralization of carbon

654
00:25:56,149 --> 00:25:53,760
so then we got involved trying to figure

655
00:25:57,990 --> 00:25:56,159
out what microorganisms are actually

656
00:25:59,990 --> 00:25:58,000
doing this and we collaborated with tim

657
00:26:02,630 --> 00:26:00,000
hollibaugh and his crew at the

658
00:26:04,470 --> 00:26:02,640
university of georgia uh and of course

659
00:26:06,549 --> 00:26:04,480
we got

660
00:26:09,190 --> 00:26:06,559
entirely different result

661
00:26:10,870 --> 00:26:09,200
jody no shelley

662
00:26:12,390 --> 00:26:10,880
huffed

663
00:26:13,669 --> 00:26:12,400
discovered a microorganism from the

664
00:26:16,390 --> 00:26:13,679
water column

665
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:16,400
alkaline limnicolor herlick ai that can

666
00:26:22,789 --> 00:26:18,960
oxidize arsenic 3 with nitrate and grow

667
00:26:24,390 --> 00:26:22,799
as a chemoautotroph next slide please

668
00:26:25,350 --> 00:26:24,400
and this is its growth curve that was

669
00:26:26,230 --> 00:26:25,360
published

670
00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:26,240
uh

671
00:26:30,710 --> 00:26:28,960
arsenite goes to arsenate nitrate goes

672
00:26:32,630 --> 00:26:30,720
to nitrite and there's more examples of

673
00:26:35,430 --> 00:26:32,640
this uh in the regular world it's not

674
00:26:36,950 --> 00:26:35,440
just confined to modal lake

675
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:36,960
if you take away the arsenite it doesn't

676
00:26:43,830 --> 00:26:40,320
grow next slide please

677
00:26:46,870 --> 00:26:43,840
well john stahl sent uh uh

678
00:26:49,830 --> 00:26:46,880
we we sent the cells off to uh

679
00:26:55,190 --> 00:26:52,789
get their genome done by doe

680
00:26:56,149 --> 00:26:55,200
and the annotation came back and he

681
00:26:58,470 --> 00:26:56,159
called me

682
00:26:59,909 --> 00:26:58,480
and said are you sitting down

683
00:27:01,190 --> 00:26:59,919
i said i always sit down tell me

684
00:27:05,990 --> 00:27:01,200
something else you'll be lying down what

685
00:27:10,149 --> 00:27:08,230
we isolated this critter by giving it

686
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:10,159
arsenic 3 and it grows by giving it

687
00:27:13,909 --> 00:27:12,240
arsenite and it makes arsenate

688
00:27:15,190 --> 00:27:13,919
but it has no

689
00:27:16,310 --> 00:27:15,200
annotated

690
00:27:18,710 --> 00:27:16,320
arsenite

691
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:18,720
oxidase it ain't there

692
00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:20,399
it's the genome it's not there search

693
00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:23,039
the genome no arsenite oxidase

694
00:27:28,310 --> 00:27:25,520
but what it has

695
00:27:31,110 --> 00:27:28,320
are not one but two homologues of

696
00:27:32,549 --> 00:27:31,120
respiratory arsenic reductases

697
00:27:35,510 --> 00:27:32,559
but it doesn't

698
00:27:36,549 --> 00:27:35,520
respire arsenate

699
00:27:38,549 --> 00:27:36,559
why

700
00:27:39,350 --> 00:27:38,559
how does this work i don't understand

701
00:27:45,990 --> 00:27:39,360
this

702
00:27:47,990 --> 00:27:46,000
set

703
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:48,000
that we're getting on our genome

704
00:27:53,669 --> 00:27:51,200
annotations of cells of communities of

705
00:27:56,789 --> 00:27:53,679
people we really have to do

706
00:27:58,789 --> 00:27:56,799
the basic classical physiology to

707
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:58,799
determine whether these things are real

708
00:28:01,990 --> 00:28:00,080
or they're homologs or they're just

709
00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:02,000
pieces of dna but this is a really

710
00:28:07,510 --> 00:28:05,200
interesting story because what

711
00:28:09,269 --> 00:28:07,520
john's lab went on to show

712
00:28:10,389 --> 00:28:09,279
is that

713
00:28:12,789 --> 00:28:10,399
these are

714
00:28:15,750 --> 00:28:12,799
although they're annotated as arsenate

715
00:28:18,789 --> 00:28:15,760
reductases they're actually acting

716
00:28:20,950 --> 00:28:18,799
in vivo as arsenide oxidases remember i

717
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:20,960
showed you they kind of look alike

718
00:28:24,230 --> 00:28:22,320
they're reversible

719
00:28:26,070 --> 00:28:24,240
and they're acting in the opposite

720
00:28:27,909 --> 00:28:26,080
direction but they're anaerobic

721
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:27,919
arsenide oxidases as opposed to the

722
00:28:34,070 --> 00:28:31,200
aerobic ones next please

723
00:28:36,789 --> 00:28:34,080
and in further collaborations with chad

724
00:28:38,230 --> 00:28:36,799
soltikov and cameron zager

725
00:28:41,830 --> 00:28:38,240
who is his

726
00:28:43,350 --> 00:28:41,840
ph.d student they did knock out mutants

727
00:28:45,110 --> 00:28:43,360
and showed

728
00:28:47,029 --> 00:28:45,120
that if you knock out the gene one of

729
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:47,039
the genes not both of them turns out one

730
00:28:51,590 --> 00:28:49,200
is irrelevant but one of them if you

731
00:28:54,389 --> 00:28:51,600
knock it out it does not grow

732
00:28:57,110 --> 00:28:54,399
under these conditions uh and it's

733
00:29:00,789 --> 00:28:57,120
critical it's acting as the arsenite

734
00:29:02,389 --> 00:29:00,799
oxidase next slide please

735
00:29:04,070 --> 00:29:02,399
and this is where it fell out it turns

736
00:29:05,750 --> 00:29:04,080
out the branching

737
00:29:06,789 --> 00:29:05,760
of the proteins

738
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:06,799
for

739
00:29:10,149 --> 00:29:08,559
respiratory arsenate or duct tapes all

740
00:29:11,190 --> 00:29:10,159
these guys are although all of these are

741
00:29:14,630 --> 00:29:11,200
from

742
00:29:16,470 --> 00:29:14,640
microbes that can respire arsenate

743
00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:16,480
the ones from alkali alumni color or

744
00:29:19,190 --> 00:29:17,600
licking eye

745
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:19,200
fall out

746
00:29:23,510 --> 00:29:20,320
a little bit

747
00:29:27,110 --> 00:29:25,269
down here

748
00:29:29,909 --> 00:29:27,120
are the arsenite oxidases that are

749
00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:29,919
associated with the aerobic oxidation

750
00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:32,320
of arsenic iii these

751
00:29:36,549 --> 00:29:34,960
two one only one of which actually works

752
00:29:39,029 --> 00:29:36,559
are associated with

753
00:29:40,710 --> 00:29:39,039
anaerobic oxidation of arsenic iii next

754
00:29:41,990 --> 00:29:40,720
slide please

755
00:29:43,750 --> 00:29:42,000
so let's go back to monolith because

756
00:29:45,510 --> 00:29:43,760
we've got pretty pictures now this one

757
00:29:46,950 --> 00:29:45,520
was taken by larry miller

758
00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:46,960
looking east

759
00:29:51,269 --> 00:29:49,279
over peoha island to the snow covered

760
00:29:55,029 --> 00:29:51,279
sierras in the background

761
00:29:57,350 --> 00:29:55,039
i think was made on the cover of esnt

762
00:29:59,269 --> 00:29:57,360
next slide please

763
00:30:00,870 --> 00:29:59,279
well if you go to those hot springs on

764
00:30:02,470 --> 00:30:00,880
peoha island

765
00:30:03,269 --> 00:30:02,480
on the south side this is what it looks

766
00:30:05,190 --> 00:30:03,279
like

767
00:30:07,750 --> 00:30:05,200
nice steam coming out of the water

768
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:07,760
nice hydrogen sulfide smell

769
00:30:11,590 --> 00:30:09,760
bubbles of methane all over the place

770
00:30:14,470 --> 00:30:11,600
the lake actually has a natural gas

771
00:30:16,950 --> 00:30:14,480
deposit underneath it that

772
00:30:18,789 --> 00:30:16,960
just bubbles like pepsi cola sometimes

773
00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:18,799
next slide please don't smoke if you go

774
00:30:24,310 --> 00:30:22,710
and

775
00:30:26,070 --> 00:30:24,320
if you go ashore

776
00:30:27,909 --> 00:30:26,080
coming out of these hot springs you see

777
00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:27,919
these biofilms

778
00:30:31,269 --> 00:30:30,080
in many cases these beautiful

779
00:30:33,830 --> 00:30:31,279
layers of

780
00:30:35,110 --> 00:30:33,840
purple photosynthetic bacteria that are

781
00:30:36,549 --> 00:30:35,120
are growing

782
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:36,559
under these warm springs next slide

783
00:30:39,830 --> 00:30:37,919
please

784
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:39,840
and sometimes they form these nice big

785
00:30:43,669 --> 00:30:41,760
ponds

786
00:30:45,029 --> 00:30:43,679
of photosynthetic bacteria

787
00:30:46,710 --> 00:30:45,039
so what are they growing on besides

788
00:30:48,310 --> 00:30:46,720
light and co2

789
00:30:50,789 --> 00:30:48,320
there are three oxidants i have three

790
00:30:51,830 --> 00:30:50,799
reductants next slide please

791
00:30:53,830 --> 00:30:51,840
they also

792
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:53,840
sometimes we have these green ones as

793
00:30:58,149 --> 00:30:56,000
well next slide

794
00:31:02,950 --> 00:30:58,159
but the red one the red ponds

795
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:07,909
cheers

796
00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:10,149
they're anoxic

797
00:31:15,909 --> 00:31:13,760
they have plenty of arsenite in them

798
00:31:18,230 --> 00:31:15,919
there's also sulfide ammonia methane

799
00:31:20,149 --> 00:31:18,240
ethane

800
00:31:20,870 --> 00:31:20,159
but we wanted to see

801
00:31:23,509 --> 00:31:20,880
if

802
00:31:26,389 --> 00:31:23,519
arsenic 3 could drive the photosynthetic

803
00:31:28,789 --> 00:31:26,399
reaction so can these microbes use

804
00:31:30,710 --> 00:31:28,799
arsenic 3 to sustain an oxygenic

805
00:31:31,830 --> 00:31:30,720
photosynthesis we know they can use

806
00:31:33,909 --> 00:31:31,840
sulfide

807
00:31:36,149 --> 00:31:33,919
next slide please

808
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:36,159
and what is the system composed of it's

809
00:31:41,590 --> 00:31:39,760
mainly composed of ectothyroid aspara

810
00:31:42,470 --> 00:31:41,600
photosynthetic bacteria that's not a big

811
00:31:43,269 --> 00:31:42,480
brain

812
00:31:46,870 --> 00:31:43,279
uh

813
00:31:49,110 --> 00:31:46,880
critters there there's other anaerobes

814
00:31:51,909 --> 00:31:49,120
there but the main ninety percent or so

815
00:31:53,350 --> 00:31:51,919
as was determined by uh uh brian

816
00:31:54,630 --> 00:31:53,360
lenoil's lab

817
00:31:56,630 --> 00:31:54,640
uh and

818
00:31:58,310 --> 00:31:56,640
ahsoki and han

819
00:32:00,470 --> 00:31:58,320
showed that the main component really is

820
00:32:04,470 --> 00:32:00,480
echo thyroid asperate type

821
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,669
so tom kolp

822
00:32:12,630 --> 00:32:09,669
scraped these biofilms and incubated

823
00:32:14,630 --> 00:32:12,640
them under anaerobic conditions

824
00:32:16,149 --> 00:32:14,640
and with arsenic three in the light

825
00:32:18,710 --> 00:32:16,159
uh arsenic iii

826
00:32:20,789 --> 00:32:18,720
was completely converted uh to arsenic

827
00:32:23,350 --> 00:32:20,799
five and if you put him in the dark or

828
00:32:25,110 --> 00:32:23,360
if you kill him nothing happens

829
00:32:28,310 --> 00:32:25,120
next slide

830
00:32:30,310 --> 00:32:28,320
and if you keep on adding more arsenic 3

831
00:32:32,549 --> 00:32:30,320
at higher and higher doses

832
00:32:34,630 --> 00:32:32,559
they make more and more arsenic 5. this

833
00:32:36,389 --> 00:32:34,640
was a ruined weekend for tom he started

834
00:32:38,310 --> 00:32:36,399
the experiment over here

835
00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:38,320
on a long weekend it was actually

836
00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:39,760
columbus day weekend and i said i don't

837
00:32:44,310 --> 00:32:42,159
know what your plans are but you're

838
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:44,320
coming in this weekend through monday

839
00:32:47,029 --> 00:32:45,840
and make the time up next week because

840
00:32:47,830 --> 00:32:47,039
we don't know if these guys are going to

841
00:32:48,789 --> 00:32:47,840
last

842
00:32:51,909 --> 00:32:48,799
actually

843
00:32:53,830 --> 00:32:51,919
they maintain uh viability for months

844
00:32:54,830 --> 00:32:53,840
and months if we keep them in the fridge

845
00:32:58,549 --> 00:32:54,840
next slide

846
00:33:03,029 --> 00:32:58,559
please then shelly huffed

847
00:33:05,590 --> 00:33:03,039
isolated strain phs1 from that milieu

848
00:33:07,990 --> 00:33:05,600
of a photosynthetic bacterium that grows

849
00:33:10,950 --> 00:33:08,000
on arsenite about the same time

850
00:33:12,549 --> 00:33:10,960
independently tim halabaugh's group uh

851
00:33:14,630 --> 00:33:12,559
isolated from

852
00:33:16,230 --> 00:33:14,640
a winogradski column an enrichment

853
00:33:18,389 --> 00:33:16,240
culture that seemed to do the same thing

854
00:33:20,630 --> 00:33:18,399
and then we ran into each other

855
00:33:23,350 --> 00:33:20,640
we had posters next to each other at agu

856
00:33:25,750 --> 00:33:23,360
and we said well let's put our

857
00:33:28,230 --> 00:33:25,760
forces together and and grind this thing

858
00:33:30,070 --> 00:33:28,240
out this is the next slide please

859
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:30,080
uh these are the growth curves uh they

860
00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:30,960
grow

861
00:33:36,789 --> 00:33:32,000
uh

862
00:33:38,470 --> 00:33:36,799
arsenic five you the trick is you have

863
00:33:40,149 --> 00:33:38,480
to pulse your additions if you give them

864
00:33:41,350 --> 00:33:40,159
too much you'll kill them but if you

865
00:33:42,870 --> 00:33:41,360
should give them

866
00:33:45,110 --> 00:33:42,880
just the right amount they'll keep on

867
00:33:47,590 --> 00:33:45,120
growing and you just have to resupply it

868
00:33:49,669 --> 00:33:47,600
next slide

869
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:49,679
and

870
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:51,279
as i mentioned it's a member of the

871
00:33:54,389 --> 00:33:53,200
ectothyroid aspera

872
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:54,399
not too far

873
00:33:58,789 --> 00:33:56,159
away

874
00:34:05,190 --> 00:34:02,630
strain mlhe1 phylogenetically

875
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,550
and it's

876
00:34:13,430 --> 00:34:11,990
it doesn't have an arsenide oxidase

877
00:34:15,430 --> 00:34:13,440
it has

878
00:34:16,470 --> 00:34:15,440
an arsenic reductase

879
00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:16,480
that is

880
00:34:20,389 --> 00:34:17,760
aligned

881
00:34:22,310 --> 00:34:20,399
with the arsenate reductase of

882
00:34:23,430 --> 00:34:22,320
alkalinity color or lickeye in other

883
00:34:25,909 --> 00:34:23,440
words

884
00:34:28,470 --> 00:34:25,919
this guy this anaerobe is also oxidizing

885
00:34:29,190 --> 00:34:28,480
arsenic 3 in reverse

886
00:34:31,510 --> 00:34:29,200
by

887
00:34:32,790 --> 00:34:31,520
something the genome meditation says is

888
00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:32,800
a reductase

889
00:34:38,149 --> 00:34:35,520
next slide

890
00:34:39,190 --> 00:34:38,159
if you take these scrapings

891
00:34:41,909 --> 00:34:39,200
and

892
00:34:43,990 --> 00:34:41,919
them in a bottle

893
00:34:45,349 --> 00:34:44,000
in the light

894
00:34:47,349 --> 00:34:45,359
arsenic 3

895
00:34:48,550 --> 00:34:47,359
goes to arsenic 5 quantitatively there's

896
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:48,560
no light if you kill them nothing

897
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:50,800
happens but when you

898
00:34:55,109 --> 00:34:53,280
turn the lights off

899
00:34:57,589 --> 00:34:55,119
just the opposite happens

900
00:34:59,829 --> 00:34:57,599
all the arsenate goes to arsenite

901
00:35:01,750 --> 00:34:59,839
and what is occurring here

902
00:35:03,030 --> 00:35:01,760
is a centrify between different

903
00:35:04,710 --> 00:35:03,040
populations

904
00:35:07,829 --> 00:35:04,720
of photosynthetic bacteria that can

905
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:07,839
oxidize the arsenic 3 to arsenic 5 and

906
00:35:13,270 --> 00:35:09,920
the arsenate respirers that are very

907
00:35:15,990 --> 00:35:13,280
closely related to them physically

908
00:35:18,310 --> 00:35:16,000
and we have coupled arsenite oxidation

909
00:35:21,829 --> 00:35:18,320
arsenate reduction so the arsenite

910
00:35:24,630 --> 00:35:21,839
oxidase advisors are creating a niche

911
00:35:26,470 --> 00:35:24,640
for the arsenate respirers

912
00:35:29,349 --> 00:35:26,480
and you can see how this is demonstrated

913
00:35:33,349 --> 00:35:29,359
ecologically in these hot springs

914
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:36,550
arsenate reduction is being fueled by

915
00:35:40,950 --> 00:35:38,560
inorganic electron donors organics

916
00:35:43,030 --> 00:35:40,960
didn't work in this system but hydrogen

917
00:35:44,390 --> 00:35:43,040
and sulfide did i won't go into this in

918
00:35:46,230 --> 00:35:44,400
great detail but that's the take home

919
00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:46,240
message here and they're chemo

920
00:35:50,230 --> 00:35:47,520
autotrophs

921
00:35:54,950 --> 00:35:52,470
this is a terrible slide but there are

922
00:35:56,470 --> 00:35:54,960
arsenate reductases here that

923
00:35:58,630 --> 00:35:56,480
most of them align with those of the

924
00:36:00,950 --> 00:35:58,640
ectothyroid aspera but there's others

925
00:36:03,910 --> 00:36:00,960
that are more associated with

926
00:36:06,390 --> 00:36:03,920
the respiratory type arsenal reductases

927
00:36:10,870 --> 00:36:08,390
and if you try and feed organics in this

928
00:36:12,950 --> 00:36:10,880
case acetate

929
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:12,960
it doesn't fuel arsenic reduction what

930
00:36:16,069 --> 00:36:14,400
it actually fuels

931
00:36:18,790 --> 00:36:16,079
is photosynthetic

932
00:36:21,430 --> 00:36:18,800
arsenic photosynthetic and oxygenic

933
00:36:23,430 --> 00:36:21,440
photosynthesis these bugs can also

934
00:36:25,990 --> 00:36:23,440
strip electrons from acetate that's

935
00:36:27,829 --> 00:36:26,000
rather well known and that goes on uh

936
00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:27,839
very well in the light but not the dark

937
00:36:30,790 --> 00:36:29,520
so it's sort of like different

938
00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:30,800
than what you're thinking about a marine

939
00:36:35,910 --> 00:36:32,960
sediment or mud you acetate it's going

940
00:36:39,750 --> 00:36:35,920
to go to co2 and methane not here

941
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:43,349
so in summary

942
00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:45,589
there's a complete cycle biogeochemical

943
00:36:51,349 --> 00:36:49,040
cycle of arsenic in the environment

944
00:36:52,950 --> 00:36:51,359
if we start out with arsenate

945
00:36:54,710 --> 00:36:52,960
it can be reduced

946
00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:54,720
to arsenite

947
00:37:00,310 --> 00:36:56,640
at the

948
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:00,320
organic matter to co2

949
00:37:11,349 --> 00:37:09,030
but inorganic electron donors could also

950
00:37:13,829 --> 00:37:11,359
fuel this process including hydrogen and

951
00:37:16,310 --> 00:37:13,839
sulfide

952
00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:16,320
on the oxidative side of the cycle

953
00:37:21,270 --> 00:37:18,960
arsenic 3 can go back to arsenic 5

954
00:37:23,670 --> 00:37:21,280
through microbial action

955
00:37:25,510 --> 00:37:23,680
by coupling with strong oxidants like

956
00:37:29,030 --> 00:37:25,520
oxygen or nitrate

957
00:37:31,030 --> 00:37:29,040
and this is a chemoautotrophic process

958
00:37:32,630 --> 00:37:31,040
but

959
00:37:35,030 --> 00:37:32,640
an oxygenic photosynthesis

960
00:37:37,109 --> 00:37:35,040
short-circuits this

961
00:37:39,510 --> 00:37:37,119
so all you need is light

962
00:37:41,190 --> 00:37:39,520
and you can go from arsenic 3 to arsenic

963
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:41,200
5. and if you think back

964
00:37:43,670 --> 00:37:42,000
maybe

965
00:37:45,030 --> 00:37:43,680
4 billion years

966
00:37:46,710 --> 00:37:45,040
when life is first getting going and

967
00:37:49,589 --> 00:37:46,720
there's all these reductants coming out

968
00:37:50,470 --> 00:37:49,599
of the ground like sulfide like arsenic

969
00:37:52,390 --> 00:37:50,480
iii

970
00:37:54,870 --> 00:37:52,400
all you need is a microbe that can

971
00:37:56,870 --> 00:37:54,880
oxidize arsenic 3 to arsenic 5 with a

972
00:37:59,109 --> 00:37:56,880
little bit of light

973
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:59,119
and it creates arsenic 5 and makes an

974
00:38:02,230 --> 00:38:00,400
immediate niche

975
00:38:05,349 --> 00:38:02,240
for the appearance of respiratory

976
00:38:07,829 --> 00:38:05,359
arsenic reducing bacteria or archaea in

977
00:38:10,150 --> 00:38:07,839
the same place and they start working in

978
00:38:12,310 --> 00:38:10,160
centrify and feeding off each other next

979
00:38:14,150 --> 00:38:12,320
slide please

980
00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:14,160
so this is that

981
00:38:19,109 --> 00:38:16,960
a refined version of the slide i showed

982
00:38:21,109 --> 00:38:19,119
you before coming out of chad salter

983
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:21,119
calls lab it hasn't been published yet

984
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:23,760
but it will be submitted soon

985
00:38:29,270 --> 00:38:26,560
of the dmso reductases molybdenum and

986
00:38:30,390 --> 00:38:29,280
the that's not an easy element

987
00:38:32,550 --> 00:38:30,400
to say

988
00:38:35,109 --> 00:38:32,560
here are the anaerobic

989
00:38:36,310 --> 00:38:35,119
uh arsenate reductases here are the

990
00:38:38,230 --> 00:38:36,320
aerobic

991
00:38:39,670 --> 00:38:38,240
uh arsenite oxidases and here's that

992
00:38:41,829 --> 00:38:39,680
branch and now we've got a lot more

993
00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:41,839
clones and cultures in here

994
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:45,040
that appear to have this anaerobic

995
00:38:50,470 --> 00:38:47,520
arsenite oxidase

996
00:38:53,670 --> 00:38:50,480
we call it ar x now to distinguish it

997
00:38:58,829 --> 00:38:53,680
between ar uh a

998
00:39:01,109 --> 00:38:58,839
a-r-r-a and a-o-x it's a-r-x and

999
00:39:02,470 --> 00:39:01,119
here's all right alkaline lemon color

1000
00:39:04,870 --> 00:39:02,480
erlicky i

1001
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:04,880
here are the photosynthetic bacteria

1002
00:39:08,950 --> 00:39:06,720
that shelly has in culture as well as

1003
00:39:11,109 --> 00:39:08,960
clones from the environment and there

1004
00:39:13,910 --> 00:39:11,119
are a number of hits from the shoreline

1005
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:13,920
of moto lake as well as from hot creek

1006
00:39:18,710 --> 00:39:16,320
which is an arsenic rich fresh water

1007
00:39:20,230 --> 00:39:18,720
environment about 30 miles away

1008
00:39:22,630 --> 00:39:20,240
which might imply that this is a lot

1009
00:39:23,670 --> 00:39:22,640
more widespread

1010
00:39:25,430 --> 00:39:23,680
than

1011
00:39:28,230 --> 00:39:25,440
just mono lake

1012
00:39:30,710 --> 00:39:28,240
there's another way to cycle arsenic 3

1013
00:39:32,470 --> 00:39:30,720
back to arsenic 5 anaerobically next

1014
00:39:34,150 --> 00:39:32,480
slide please

1015
00:39:35,829 --> 00:39:34,160
so what does this have to do

1016
00:39:38,790 --> 00:39:35,839
with

1017
00:39:41,030 --> 00:39:38,800
that slide i showed you earlier about

1018
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:41,040
the diversity of arsenic metabolizing

1019
00:39:45,510 --> 00:39:43,440
microbes and the history of arsenic in

1020
00:39:49,190 --> 00:39:45,520
the biogeochemistry of

1021
00:39:51,030 --> 00:39:49,200
biogeochemical evolution of the earth

1022
00:39:53,349 --> 00:39:51,040
well if life got going about four

1023
00:39:56,870 --> 00:39:53,359
billion years ago

1024
00:39:59,589 --> 00:39:56,880
and the first microfossils are like 3.5

1025
00:40:01,910 --> 00:39:59,599
3.6 billion years old and some of them

1026
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:01,920
seem to be photosynthetic communities

1027
00:40:07,430 --> 00:40:04,480
it's reasonable to suggest that

1028
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:07,440
arsenic 3 biofilms were important

1029
00:40:13,030 --> 00:40:10,560
components of those primitive microbial

1030
00:40:15,109 --> 00:40:13,040
communities and maybe that process has

1031
00:40:17,109 --> 00:40:15,119
been around uh quite a while and as soon

1032
00:40:20,309 --> 00:40:17,119
as you get that going

1033
00:40:21,829 --> 00:40:20,319
you get the arsenate respires going

1034
00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:21,839
because you created arsenate and made

1035
00:40:26,069 --> 00:40:24,720
that immediate niche and if we can back

1036
00:40:28,150 --> 00:40:26,079
up one slide

1037
00:40:31,829 --> 00:40:28,160
please

1038
00:40:35,829 --> 00:40:33,670
in the course of evolution all you had

1039
00:40:38,710 --> 00:40:35,839
to do was switch the side group around

1040
00:40:42,309 --> 00:40:38,720
and you wind up with these not that big

1041
00:40:45,829 --> 00:40:42,319
a deal when oxygen picked up later

1042
00:40:46,630 --> 00:40:45,839
these guys arose so next slide please

1043
00:40:48,150 --> 00:40:46,640
so

1044
00:40:49,990 --> 00:40:48,160
it wasn't until

1045
00:40:51,670 --> 00:40:50,000
the goe event that we can really start

1046
00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:51,680
talking about aerobic

1047
00:40:55,589 --> 00:40:54,160
arsenide oxidation

1048
00:40:58,470 --> 00:40:55,599
and we had a good

1049
00:41:00,150 --> 00:40:58,480
billion years or so of anaerobic arsenic

1050
00:41:01,430 --> 00:41:00,160
cycling before that came along so it's

1051
00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:01,440
an ancient process is what i'm

1052
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:03,760
contending uh and that's why we see this

1053
00:41:07,990 --> 00:41:06,640
diversity that we do today that's uh the

1054
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:08,000
hypothesis

1055
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:10,079
later on we had goa as opposed to the

1056
00:41:14,710 --> 00:41:12,160
goe event goa's

1057
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:14,720
garlic onions and anchovies on pizza

1058
00:41:18,550 --> 00:41:16,480
next slide please

1059
00:41:20,069 --> 00:41:18,560
and this is that phylogenetic tree you

1060
00:41:21,589 --> 00:41:20,079
can see now it's even more diverse it's

1061
00:41:24,950 --> 00:41:21,599
not showing up very well so let's go to

1062
00:41:28,309 --> 00:41:26,069
okay

1063
00:41:30,069 --> 00:41:28,319
this is the money payoff this is what uh

1064
00:41:34,390 --> 00:41:30,079
all the hoopla was about for the last

1065
00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:36,390
milo i've been working on arsenic and

1066
00:41:41,030 --> 00:41:38,720
selenium and tellurium and things that

1067
00:41:43,349 --> 00:41:41,040
go bump in the night for quite some time

1068
00:41:45,190 --> 00:41:43,359
and i kept on bumping in to

1069
00:41:47,190 --> 00:41:45,200
felicia wolfe simon

1070
00:41:49,750 --> 00:41:47,200
at the gordon research conferences on

1071
00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:49,760
environmental bio inorganic chemistry

1072
00:41:54,069 --> 00:41:52,079
that have unfortunately been abolished

1073
00:41:56,390 --> 00:41:54,079
and she

1074
00:41:58,069 --> 00:41:56,400
was always persistent i mean she and her

1075
00:41:59,589 --> 00:41:58,079
husband were there and

1076
00:42:02,470 --> 00:41:59,599
they were from oberlin college and so

1077
00:42:05,510 --> 00:42:02,480
they had rings and things and orange

1078
00:42:07,270 --> 00:42:05,520
hair and felicia who had it had it too

1079
00:42:10,390 --> 00:42:07,280
uh and uh

1080
00:42:12,790 --> 00:42:10,400
she kept on talking about arsenic

1081
00:42:13,829 --> 00:42:12,800
substituting for phosphorus

1082
00:42:16,870 --> 00:42:13,839
and

1083
00:42:21,190 --> 00:42:16,880
argument became a little bit more

1084
00:42:22,230 --> 00:42:21,200
complicated a little bit more compelling

1085
00:42:23,910 --> 00:42:22,240
until

1086
00:42:25,589 --> 00:42:23,920
a couple of years ago i

1087
00:42:28,069 --> 00:42:25,599
said look

1088
00:42:29,510 --> 00:42:28,079
i don't think this is going to work but

1089
00:42:34,630 --> 00:42:29,520
it might

1090
00:42:37,270 --> 00:42:34,640
all you would have to do

1091
00:42:39,829 --> 00:42:37,280
is make a simple defined organ inorganic

1092
00:42:41,670 --> 00:42:39,839
media give it glucose

1093
00:42:43,829 --> 00:42:41,680
take away the phosphate give it a couple

1094
00:42:45,829 --> 00:42:43,839
of vitamins and give it a little bit of

1095
00:42:47,829 --> 00:42:45,839
nitrogen and give it a lot of arsenic

1096
00:42:50,950 --> 00:42:47,839
and see if anything grows

1097
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:50,960
now this gets back to the idea that

1098
00:42:55,670 --> 00:42:54,160
life may be composed of a bit more in

1099
00:42:58,470 --> 00:42:55,680
terms of the elements

1100
00:43:00,150 --> 00:42:58,480
than what we're used to being taught

1101
00:43:01,990 --> 00:43:00,160
and thinking about because you know you

1102
00:43:04,069 --> 00:43:02,000
look in the textbook it's

1103
00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:04,079
carbon nitrogen phosphorus oxygen sulfur

1104
00:43:07,510 --> 00:43:05,680
hydrogen and they're arranged in their

1105
00:43:09,589 --> 00:43:07,520
periodic order here so these are the 15

1106
00:43:12,390 --> 00:43:09,599
elements these are the 16 elements why

1107
00:43:14,790 --> 00:43:12,400
is that true because lenninger

1108
00:43:16,550 --> 00:43:14,800
in this textbook said and the

1109
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:16,560
earlier textbook said that they all said

1110
00:43:21,190 --> 00:43:18,079
it and we all know we're composing this

1111
00:43:24,069 --> 00:43:21,200
stuff so what's the argument right

1112
00:43:25,990 --> 00:43:24,079
well star trek

1113
00:43:27,670 --> 00:43:26,000
silica instead of carbon it's right

1114
00:43:29,670 --> 00:43:27,680
below i mean that would be wonderful for

1115
00:43:31,670 --> 00:43:29,680
the astrophysicist community because

1116
00:43:33,430 --> 00:43:31,680
we've got all now all these exoplanets

1117
00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:33,440
but they're usually circulating close to

1118
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:34,960
the sun they're hot but they can have

1119
00:43:40,150 --> 00:43:36,319
rocks

1120
00:43:42,309 --> 00:43:40,160
silica instead of carbon wouldn't that

1121
00:43:43,589 --> 00:43:42,319
be terrific

1122
00:43:45,349 --> 00:43:43,599
but

1123
00:43:47,589 --> 00:43:45,359
the chemistry is not right

1124
00:43:48,950 --> 00:43:47,599
it doesn't form the myriads of compounds

1125
00:43:50,870 --> 00:43:48,960
so what the what are the rocks going to

1126
00:43:52,829 --> 00:43:50,880
eat it just doesn't seem to work what

1127
00:43:54,470 --> 00:43:52,839
are they going to poop out

1128
00:43:55,990 --> 00:43:54,480
and

1129
00:43:58,550 --> 00:43:56,000
but it's great for science fiction they

1130
00:44:01,349 --> 00:43:58,560
were the old hoarder uh episodes of star

1131
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:01,359
trek spock what is it doing

1132
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:04,000
spot you know the over acting uh

1133
00:44:09,670 --> 00:44:05,760
community uh

1134
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:09,680
emoting emote you emote too much

1135
00:44:13,270 --> 00:44:11,280
and i don't think anybody seriously

1136
00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:13,280
considered lithium substituting for

1137
00:44:15,829 --> 00:44:14,480
hydrogen

1138
00:44:17,430 --> 00:44:15,839
in life because

1139
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:17,440
how do you get it out of an aqueous or

1140
00:44:21,430 --> 00:44:19,440
even an organic solvent they all have

1141
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:21,440
hydrogen uh how is that going to work

1142
00:44:26,150 --> 00:44:23,760
how are you going to test that but

1143
00:44:28,470 --> 00:44:26,160
if you go down to group 15 and the group

1144
00:44:31,109 --> 00:44:28,480
16 elements we got these two

1145
00:44:32,630 --> 00:44:31,119
these are actually testable

1146
00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:32,640
so i said come on out fellas so what do

1147
00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:34,160
we got to lose well you got to lose your

1148
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:36,720
whole career but i got nothing to lose

1149
00:44:41,589 --> 00:44:39,040
and so we appealed to nasa and they love

1150
00:44:43,670 --> 00:44:41,599
the idea this is what i love about nasa

1151
00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:43,680
a long shot

1152
00:44:47,589 --> 00:44:45,760
is not that big a deal

1153
00:44:50,150 --> 00:44:47,599
whether you're going

1154
00:44:51,990 --> 00:44:50,160
to venus or mars or jupiter or saturn we

1155
00:44:54,069 --> 00:44:52,000
might find out something and we always

1156
00:44:55,990 --> 00:44:54,079
usually do if the dang things don't

1157
00:44:58,630 --> 00:44:56,000
break down

1158
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:58,640
and this compared to a mars mission

1159
00:45:01,990 --> 00:45:00,240
is boopkis you're talking about a

1160
00:45:03,589 --> 00:45:02,000
postdoc salary

1161
00:45:05,750 --> 00:45:03,599
and they pay him a lot less than the

1162
00:45:08,230 --> 00:45:05,760
usgs postdocs i'll just put that in

1163
00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:08,240
there she works for half the price

1164
00:45:12,870 --> 00:45:10,960
so there's been a huge amount of hoopla

1165
00:45:14,309 --> 00:45:12,880
about this in the media you think this

1166
00:45:16,230 --> 00:45:14,319
was a billion dollar

1167
00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:16,240
multi-gigantic thing no it's just

1168
00:45:20,309 --> 00:45:18,000
felicia puts it away in the lab with

1169
00:45:23,109 --> 00:45:20,319
this culture

1170
00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:23,119
for a very small amount of money

1171
00:45:28,790 --> 00:45:26,950
everybody knows how to make a small

1172
00:45:34,150 --> 00:45:28,800
fortune in california

1173
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:35,349
but

1174
00:45:38,230 --> 00:45:36,960
so she started this experiment and this

1175
00:45:39,829 --> 00:45:38,240
is you know the meaning of life our

1176
00:45:43,510 --> 00:45:39,839
snake in the meaning of life i get that

1177
00:45:46,390 --> 00:45:43,520
from monty python next slide please

1178
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:46,400
and her contention was

1179
00:45:49,430 --> 00:45:47,280
uh

1180
00:45:51,910 --> 00:45:49,440
it doesn't show up very well here but

1181
00:45:55,430 --> 00:45:51,920
these are arsenic uh

1182
00:45:59,109 --> 00:45:55,440
arsenate molecules binding the ribose

1183
00:46:00,390 --> 00:45:59,119
uh sugars together in the dna helix on

1184
00:46:02,309 --> 00:46:00,400
both sides

1185
00:46:03,829 --> 00:46:02,319
now that's a pretty big deal if that's

1186
00:46:07,670 --> 00:46:03,839
really true

1187
00:46:09,750 --> 00:46:07,680
and i think we now have decent evidence

1188
00:46:11,190 --> 00:46:09,760
that supports this

1189
00:46:12,390 --> 00:46:11,200
next slide

1190
00:46:14,630 --> 00:46:12,400
so

1191
00:46:16,870 --> 00:46:14,640
from this media

1192
00:46:19,190 --> 00:46:16,880
things started growing

1193
00:46:20,390 --> 00:46:19,200
and well you're carrying over phosphorus

1194
00:46:22,870 --> 00:46:20,400
from there's a lot of phosphorus in

1195
00:46:24,470 --> 00:46:22,880
monolight mud keep on transferring it

1196
00:46:27,109 --> 00:46:24,480
well you're going through eight

1197
00:46:29,109 --> 00:46:27,119
transfers 10 transfers

1198
00:46:30,550 --> 00:46:29,119
all right something's in there but

1199
00:46:33,190 --> 00:46:30,560
there's got to be phosphorus in there

1200
00:46:34,069 --> 00:46:33,200
put it on plates pick colonies and put

1201
00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:34,079
it back

1202
00:46:37,510 --> 00:46:35,520
into the media it's not going to grow

1203
00:46:40,150 --> 00:46:37,520
the group

1204
00:46:42,550 --> 00:46:40,160
but the growth was marginal

1205
00:46:44,390 --> 00:46:42,560
compared to controls or it was way below

1206
00:46:46,069 --> 00:46:44,400
phosphorus and then on our own she

1207
00:46:47,510 --> 00:46:46,079
figured out two things one we need to

1208
00:46:49,510 --> 00:46:47,520
keep these guys

1209
00:46:51,270 --> 00:46:49,520
at constant temperature

1210
00:46:53,670 --> 00:46:51,280
at 28 degrees

1211
00:46:56,230 --> 00:46:53,680
because the usgs has a very very

1212
00:46:58,390 --> 00:46:57,589
temperature control in the building i'm

1213
00:47:08,069 --> 00:46:58,400
in

1214
00:47:09,270 --> 00:47:08,079
and it fluctuates on a 24-hour cycle and

1215
00:47:10,630 --> 00:47:09,280
on weekends

1216
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:10,640
all bets are off

1217
00:47:14,230 --> 00:47:12,000
so the bugs

1218
00:47:15,750 --> 00:47:14,240
our microbes are exposed to these things

1219
00:47:17,109 --> 00:47:15,760
so i said all right

1220
00:47:19,349 --> 00:47:17,119
let's take some money let's buy a bunch

1221
00:47:21,349 --> 00:47:19,359
of incubators then she found out that it

1222
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:21,359
grows really well

1223
00:47:26,549 --> 00:47:23,440
at extraordinarily high arsenal

1224
00:47:30,710 --> 00:47:26,559
concentration is 20 to 40 millimolar now

1225
00:47:33,270 --> 00:47:30,720
the but it grows very well on phosphorus

1226
00:47:35,910 --> 00:47:33,280
clearly no question about that that's

1227
00:47:38,549 --> 00:47:35,920
only about one to two millimolar

1228
00:47:39,829 --> 00:47:38,559
but it grows very well very respectably

1229
00:47:41,990 --> 00:47:39,839
on arsenate

1230
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:42,000
if you don't have arsenate

1231
00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:44,160
and if you don't have phosphate

1232
00:47:49,510 --> 00:47:46,880
it does not grow and that is this and we

1233
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:49,520
did this two ways this is ods

1234
00:47:52,870 --> 00:47:51,200
and this is

1235
00:47:54,230 --> 00:47:52,880
acronym orange direct counts you're

1236
00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:54,240
sitting there under a microscope

1237
00:47:58,950 --> 00:47:56,000
counting counting counting counting

1238
00:47:59,750 --> 00:47:58,960
counting laborious but you really

1239
00:48:02,309 --> 00:47:59,760
have

1240
00:48:06,150 --> 00:48:03,349
this

1241
00:48:07,670 --> 00:48:06,160
is the crux of the entire story if there

1242
00:48:11,270 --> 00:48:07,680
is not arsenic

1243
00:48:13,349 --> 00:48:11,280
or phosphate added they don't grow

1244
00:48:15,670 --> 00:48:13,359
now there's a smidgen of phosphorus in

1245
00:48:16,710 --> 00:48:15,680
the medium it's coming from impurities

1246
00:48:18,549 --> 00:48:16,720
in the

1247
00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:18,559
reagents

1248
00:48:21,589 --> 00:48:20,480
it's about two micromolar

1249
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:21,599
and we

1250
00:48:24,069 --> 00:48:23,280
didn't do anything fancy to get rid of

1251
00:48:25,430 --> 00:48:24,079
that

1252
00:48:27,510 --> 00:48:25,440
uh so

1253
00:48:29,349 --> 00:48:27,520
they're probably or maybe or there could

1254
00:48:31,190 --> 00:48:29,359
be some phosphorus

1255
00:48:33,349 --> 00:48:31,200
incorporated into the places where

1256
00:48:35,990 --> 00:48:33,359
phosphorus should be going but it's not

1257
00:48:37,270 --> 00:48:36,000
enough to sustain growth it's very clear

1258
00:48:38,870 --> 00:48:37,280
next slide please

1259
00:48:42,390 --> 00:48:38,880
and

1260
00:48:43,990 --> 00:48:42,400
well we we took a look at these things

1261
00:48:45,670 --> 00:48:44,000
and this is

1262
00:48:49,589 --> 00:48:45,680
phosphorus grown cells and they're nice

1263
00:48:51,910 --> 00:48:49,599
and happy and thin and fast and immortal

1264
00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:51,920
when you put them on arsenic they get

1265
00:48:55,190 --> 00:48:53,440
bloated

1266
00:48:56,309 --> 00:48:55,200
and they're the staining is a little bit

1267
00:48:57,910 --> 00:48:56,319
odd

1268
00:48:59,109 --> 00:48:57,920
but they're still modal

1269
00:49:01,030 --> 00:48:59,119
and they're still making copies of

1270
00:49:03,750 --> 00:49:01,040
themselves they're still growing rather

1271
00:49:05,109 --> 00:49:03,760
well and if you cut those these guys up

1272
00:49:07,190 --> 00:49:05,119
you there's vacuoles in there and

1273
00:49:09,270 --> 00:49:07,200
they're not in in the uh phosphate grown

1274
00:49:10,549 --> 00:49:09,280
ones so something is going on here

1275
00:49:12,069 --> 00:49:10,559
biologically

1276
00:49:14,309 --> 00:49:12,079
between these two conditions that we're

1277
00:49:18,230 --> 00:49:14,319
just seeing uh the beginning of next

1278
00:49:24,309 --> 00:49:21,910
this was icp work uh of uh the cells

1279
00:49:26,470 --> 00:49:24,319
uh done on phosphate grown cells and

1280
00:49:29,430 --> 00:49:26,480
arsenate grown cells and the take up

1281
00:49:30,790 --> 00:49:29,440
home story here it was done in asu is

1282
00:49:32,630 --> 00:49:30,800
that cells that were grown on our snake

1283
00:49:33,910 --> 00:49:32,640
have a lot of arsenic in them and cells

1284
00:49:35,829 --> 00:49:33,920
that were grown on phosphorus have a lot

1285
00:49:39,510 --> 00:49:35,839
of phosphorus on them now the paper has

1286
00:49:44,870 --> 00:49:42,710
this is where the criticism has been

1287
00:49:46,630 --> 00:49:44,880
hardest at this point is that what are

1288
00:49:48,069 --> 00:49:46,640
these numbers this little this is a

1289
00:49:48,870 --> 00:49:48,079
little bit sloppy

1290
00:49:52,950 --> 00:49:48,880
uh

1291
00:49:54,150 --> 00:49:52,960
well the cells

1292
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:54,160
ain't as healthy when they're growing

1293
00:49:56,870 --> 00:49:55,680
they probably leak a bit when you sense

1294
00:49:59,109 --> 00:49:56,880
your fusion down and wash them in

1295
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:59,119
centrifuge in washington uh

1296
00:50:02,309 --> 00:50:00,480
the numbers aren't precise they don't

1297
00:50:04,069 --> 00:50:02,319
quite work but if you do some rough

1298
00:50:05,990 --> 00:50:04,079
calculations and i say these are only

1299
00:50:07,670 --> 00:50:06,000
rough calculations

1300
00:50:09,349 --> 00:50:07,680
you can say there's not enough

1301
00:50:11,589 --> 00:50:09,359
phosphorus in the system to sustain it

1302
00:50:14,069 --> 00:50:11,599
you saw the growth they ain't not

1303
00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:14,079
but there's enough

1304
00:50:18,230 --> 00:50:16,240
arsenic there to to

1305
00:50:20,069 --> 00:50:18,240
keep them going so let's look at it a

1306
00:50:22,390 --> 00:50:20,079
little bit further

1307
00:50:24,710 --> 00:50:22,400
next slide please

1308
00:50:26,390 --> 00:50:24,720
so we did some radio label experiments

1309
00:50:29,510 --> 00:50:26,400
with radioactive arsenic and this was

1310
00:50:31,430 --> 00:50:29,520
where tom kulp uh helped us and this was

1311
00:50:33,109 --> 00:50:31,440
really a pain in the tucus

1312
00:50:35,510 --> 00:50:33,119
but

1313
00:50:37,190 --> 00:50:35,520
we eventually got them to take up the

1314
00:50:38,549 --> 00:50:37,200
radioactive arsenic

1315
00:50:43,829 --> 00:50:38,559
and

1316
00:50:47,109 --> 00:50:43,839
based on the extractions uh a lot of the

1317
00:50:48,870 --> 00:50:47,119
radioisotope was associated with

1318
00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:48,880
what we would normally

1319
00:50:52,790 --> 00:50:50,559
call the protein fraction the small

1320
00:50:55,510 --> 00:50:52,800
metabolite fractions like something like

1321
00:50:58,870 --> 00:50:55,520
uh acetyl-coa maybe

1322
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:58,880
acetyl phosphate and things like that

1323
00:51:07,589 --> 00:50:59,760
and

1324
00:51:09,589 --> 00:51:07,599
now this doesn't really prove they're

1325
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:09,599
there but it's consistent with the

1326
00:51:14,150 --> 00:51:12,000
labeling pattern and and there's

1327
00:51:15,430 --> 00:51:14,160
a bit of slough here but it's it's where

1328
00:51:17,589 --> 00:51:15,440
we would kind of expect these things to

1329
00:51:20,150 --> 00:51:17,599
be so next slide please that

1330
00:51:22,390 --> 00:51:20,160
prompted us to uh say we need some

1331
00:51:23,510 --> 00:51:22,400
better analysis we need to get in touch

1332
00:51:24,710 --> 00:51:23,520
with folks

1333
00:51:26,390 --> 00:51:24,720
uh

1334
00:51:27,910 --> 00:51:26,400
that could

1335
00:51:29,829 --> 00:51:27,920
make a more convincing evidence because

1336
00:51:32,870 --> 00:51:29,839
we're getting ourselves

1337
00:51:35,030 --> 00:51:32,880
out of the uh the doubting stage

1338
00:51:36,309 --> 00:51:35,040
and is this an artifact to do we really

1339
00:51:37,910 --> 00:51:36,319
have something we really might have

1340
00:51:39,990 --> 00:51:37,920
something and

1341
00:51:41,750 --> 00:51:40,000
we can't it can't it can't be

1342
00:51:44,150 --> 00:51:41,760
it really can't be

1343
00:51:46,710 --> 00:51:44,160
but it looks and then we she brought

1344
00:51:49,109 --> 00:51:46,720
cells over uh to slack stanford linear

1345
00:51:52,150 --> 00:51:49,119
accelerator the x-ray spectroscopy and

1346
00:51:53,670 --> 00:51:52,160
sam webb and

1347
00:51:56,870 --> 00:51:53,680
the results

1348
00:51:59,270 --> 00:51:56,880
sam jumped out of his out of his pants

1349
00:52:02,870 --> 00:51:59,280
and that was before we saw the results

1350
00:52:07,829 --> 00:52:05,510
it fits arsenic

1351
00:52:09,990 --> 00:52:07,839
in the dna helix with a little wiggle

1352
00:52:11,990 --> 00:52:10,000
room there for binding to uh various

1353
00:52:15,030 --> 00:52:12,000
amino acids

1354
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:15,040
it's it's not arsenic iron arsenides

1355
00:52:19,670 --> 00:52:17,040
and it's not arsenic sulfides clearly

1356
00:52:20,549 --> 00:52:19,680
and it's as arsenic five it's consistent

1357
00:52:23,190 --> 00:52:20,559
with

1358
00:52:25,109 --> 00:52:23,200
arsenic being present in the dna

1359
00:52:27,589 --> 00:52:25,119
at that point we said

1360
00:52:30,069 --> 00:52:27,599
let's write a draft to science

1361
00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:30,079
and while that was going on

1362
00:52:35,750 --> 00:52:31,200
uh

1363
00:52:37,910 --> 00:52:35,760
pedridge came back to lawrence livermore

1364
00:52:39,349 --> 00:52:37,920
with her nano sims array

1365
00:52:41,510 --> 00:52:39,359
and

1366
00:52:43,030 --> 00:52:41,520
felicia brought out samples uh to

1367
00:52:46,790 --> 00:52:43,040
lawrence livermore

1368
00:52:48,630 --> 00:52:46,800
of extracted dna on gels from

1369
00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:48,640
arsenic grown cells and phosphorus grown

1370
00:52:52,950 --> 00:52:50,880
cells and a bunch of other cells uh and

1371
00:52:55,109 --> 00:52:52,960
they i don't have those slides but the

1372
00:52:56,950 --> 00:52:55,119
take home message is that dna from

1373
00:52:59,510 --> 00:52:56,960
arsenic ground cells

1374
00:53:01,589 --> 00:52:59,520
has arsenic and dna from phosphorus gone

1375
00:53:03,910 --> 00:53:01,599
cells has phosphorus

1376
00:53:05,589 --> 00:53:03,920
and at that point we said we've got

1377
00:53:07,510 --> 00:53:05,599
compelling evidence that

1378
00:53:08,790 --> 00:53:07,520
this is here now we we don't have

1379
00:53:11,030 --> 00:53:08,800
everything

1380
00:53:13,430 --> 00:53:11,040
we don't people where's the nmr of

1381
00:53:15,030 --> 00:53:13,440
crystallized proteins we

1382
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:15,040
don't have that and that's going to take

1383
00:53:18,950 --> 00:53:16,960
years to get to

1384
00:53:20,309 --> 00:53:18,960
and we don't have an nmr we need to

1385
00:53:22,150 --> 00:53:20,319
collaborate with people who know how to

1386
00:53:24,630 --> 00:53:22,160
do this to make that a bit more

1387
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:24,640
convincing what about the metabolites

1388
00:53:28,470 --> 00:53:26,640
the numbers don't quite jive and they

1389
00:53:30,069 --> 00:53:28,480
don't i'll be the first to admit it

1390
00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:30,079
they're rough they're back they're not

1391
00:53:34,069 --> 00:53:31,920
even back at the envelope calculations

1392
00:53:35,270 --> 00:53:34,079
they're inside the envelope calculations

1393
00:53:38,230 --> 00:53:35,280
uh that were

1394
00:53:40,470 --> 00:53:38,240
used in an argument to make us try these

1395
00:53:42,790 --> 00:53:40,480
analyses to convince us that this was

1396
00:53:44,870 --> 00:53:42,800
worth doing

1397
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:44,880
and i think this is rather compelling

1398
00:53:47,990 --> 00:53:46,960
that we now have an example

1399
00:53:49,990 --> 00:53:48,000
of uh

1400
00:53:52,150 --> 00:53:50,000
arsenic-based life where it's

1401
00:53:54,870 --> 00:53:52,160
substituting for phosphorus and this is

1402
00:53:56,630 --> 00:53:54,880
strained gfaj

1403
00:53:59,109 --> 00:53:56,640
and

1404
00:54:02,069 --> 00:53:59,119
here was another surprise uh i don't

1405
00:54:05,990 --> 00:54:02,079
think next slide please

1406
00:54:08,390 --> 00:54:06,000
uh next slide i think it's a okay

1407
00:54:11,829 --> 00:54:08,400
it's a member of the hallomono desi asa

1408
00:54:14,230 --> 00:54:11,839
hello monas hello monas it's uh common

1409
00:54:15,510 --> 00:54:14,240
in its alien environments they're not an

1410
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:15,520
unusual we thought we're gonna get the

1411
00:54:19,510 --> 00:54:16,800
green monster

1412
00:54:20,309 --> 00:54:19,520
you know take us to your leader uh we

1413
00:54:22,150 --> 00:54:20,319
get

1414
00:54:23,190 --> 00:54:22,160
a strain of halimonas

1415
00:54:24,470 --> 00:54:23,200
and

1416
00:54:27,270 --> 00:54:24,480
halamonis

1417
00:54:30,150 --> 00:54:27,280
helimon eye hello monae they are known

1418
00:54:31,910 --> 00:54:30,160
arsenic accumulators

1419
00:54:33,829 --> 00:54:31,920
but nobody's ever looked at arsenic

1420
00:54:36,470 --> 00:54:33,839
substituting for phosphorus before so

1421
00:54:39,270 --> 00:54:36,480
they're in a well-established genome uh

1422
00:54:42,549 --> 00:54:39,280
well-established genus uh

1423
00:54:43,670 --> 00:54:42,559
uh that lives in uh salient environments

1424
00:54:45,430 --> 00:54:43,680
and you know we were kind of

1425
00:54:46,630 --> 00:54:45,440
disappointed at that we were

1426
00:54:48,390 --> 00:54:46,640
if you

1427
00:54:50,069 --> 00:54:48,400
create such a challenge to isolate the

1428
00:54:51,750 --> 00:54:50,079
organism in the first place shouldn't

1429
00:54:53,190 --> 00:54:51,760
you get something really nutty that

1430
00:54:55,190 --> 00:54:53,200
nobody's ever seen before and it turns

1431
00:54:57,430 --> 00:54:55,200
out to be fairly common it's like the e

1432
00:54:58,630 --> 00:54:57,440
coli of saline environments what's the

1433
00:55:04,230 --> 00:54:58,640
big whoop

1434
00:55:06,870 --> 00:55:04,240
maybe this phenomena is more common

1435
00:55:10,150 --> 00:55:06,880
than just this microbe

1436
00:55:12,230 --> 00:55:10,160
it's just that nobody's tested it

1437
00:55:14,630 --> 00:55:12,240
there's bugs in culture but there's a

1438
00:55:17,190 --> 00:55:14,640
lot more guys out there that might be

1439
00:55:19,349 --> 00:55:17,200
able to do it including members that are

1440
00:55:22,470 --> 00:55:19,359
in culture collections uh

1441
00:55:23,910 --> 00:55:22,480
of established habimona desii

1442
00:55:25,829 --> 00:55:23,920
so that's worth looking at and there may

1443
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:25,839
be others

1444
00:55:30,470 --> 00:55:28,000
the trouble of modern science in

1445
00:55:32,630 --> 00:55:30,480
microbiology now is if it ain't in the

1446
00:55:35,109 --> 00:55:32,640
books or if it's not annotated in the

1447
00:55:37,030 --> 00:55:35,119
computer so i can really do these omics

1448
00:55:39,270 --> 00:55:37,040
games

1449
00:55:40,950 --> 00:55:39,280
this this is stuff pasteur was doing

1450
00:55:42,950 --> 00:55:40,960
come on we're beyond that now that we've

1451
00:55:45,030 --> 00:55:42,960
got these beautiful in silico data sets

1452
00:55:46,710 --> 00:55:45,040
we can figure out everything

1453
00:55:48,630 --> 00:55:46,720
horse manure

1454
00:55:50,710 --> 00:55:48,640
you haven't challenged

1455
00:55:52,309 --> 00:55:50,720
and thought in a creative way

1456
00:55:54,630 --> 00:55:52,319
it might be there's more examples of

1457
00:55:57,030 --> 00:55:54,640
arsenic-based life there might be forms

1458
00:55:58,710 --> 00:55:57,040
of arsenic based life that are allergic

1459
00:55:59,990 --> 00:55:58,720
to phosphorus

1460
00:56:01,510 --> 00:56:00,000
now that would be really something we

1461
00:56:02,549 --> 00:56:01,520
don't have any evidence for that but

1462
00:56:04,390 --> 00:56:02,559
it's possible

1463
00:56:06,390 --> 00:56:04,400
and that extends

1464
00:56:08,390 --> 00:56:06,400
what we know about the biome

1465
00:56:10,390 --> 00:56:08,400
and the composition of life and it also

1466
00:56:13,190 --> 00:56:10,400
raises the possibility that maybe

1467
00:56:15,270 --> 00:56:13,200
selenium might be worth testing for some

1468
00:56:16,870 --> 00:56:15,280
bold person who wants to get away from

1469
00:56:18,549 --> 00:56:16,880
the omics world

1470
00:56:20,549 --> 00:56:18,559
and try and figure out everything what

1471
00:56:21,430 --> 00:56:20,559
everything's doing and start to think

1472
00:56:23,670 --> 00:56:21,440
about

1473
00:56:25,349 --> 00:56:23,680
basic microbiology and once you get

1474
00:56:27,109 --> 00:56:25,359
something as really interesting as this

1475
00:56:30,549 --> 00:56:27,119
you can do all the really fancy stuff on

1476
00:56:32,150 --> 00:56:30,559
it i think the next generation

1477
00:56:35,030 --> 00:56:32,160
of

1478
00:56:38,230 --> 00:56:35,040
microbiologists are losing this creative

1479
00:56:40,150 --> 00:56:38,240
ability to culture new microorganisms

1480
00:56:41,589 --> 00:56:40,160
for new processes

1481
00:56:43,430 --> 00:56:41,599
they're becoming obsessed with the

1482
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:43,440
technology because their mentors are

1483
00:56:46,150 --> 00:56:44,720
obsessed with the technology and made

1484
00:56:48,069 --> 00:56:46,160
their reputations on it and they're

1485
00:56:50,230 --> 00:56:48,079
getting further and further away from

1486
00:56:51,750 --> 00:56:50,240
this and some of that's good

1487
00:56:52,630 --> 00:56:51,760
and important

1488
00:56:54,710 --> 00:56:52,640
but

1489
00:56:56,230 --> 00:56:54,720
some of the basics are being lost the

1490
00:56:58,549 --> 00:56:56,240
simple stuff nobody's going to know what

1491
00:57:00,069 --> 00:56:58,559
a petri dish is you know in isolation

1492
00:57:02,470 --> 00:57:00,079
nobody's gonna know what cereal dilution

1493
00:57:03,510 --> 00:57:02,480
is from a natural environment nobody's

1494
00:57:05,270 --> 00:57:03,520
gonna know how to challenge

1495
00:57:08,069 --> 00:57:05,280
microorganisms and figure out how to

1496
00:57:11,430 --> 00:57:08,079
make the guy grow as derek lovely says

1497
00:57:14,710 --> 00:57:12,870
well

1498
00:57:17,030 --> 00:57:14,720
what are the ramifications here i talked

1499
00:57:18,950 --> 00:57:17,040
about weird forms of life you've heard a

1500
00:57:21,190 --> 00:57:18,960
lot about this last week

1501
00:57:21,990 --> 00:57:21,200
nasa certainly made a big hoopla about

1502
00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:22,000
it

1503
00:57:27,750 --> 00:57:24,000
uh there's other things

1504
00:57:32,309 --> 00:57:30,630
there's organo arsenal compounds

1505
00:57:35,190 --> 00:57:32,319
we're out there

1506
00:57:37,670 --> 00:57:35,200
it's not just all inorganic story

1507
00:57:40,430 --> 00:57:37,680
uh one of the common ones is an analog

1508
00:57:43,349 --> 00:57:40,440
of glycine betaine

1509
00:57:44,630 --> 00:57:43,359
trimethylglycine this is common

1510
00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:44,640
in marine

1511
00:57:47,750 --> 00:57:46,640
organisms it's an osmo regulatory

1512
00:57:50,470 --> 00:57:47,760
compound

1513
00:57:52,470 --> 00:57:50,480
that microbes and saline environments

1514
00:57:54,710 --> 00:57:52,480
use to pump themselves up internally to

1515
00:57:56,230 --> 00:57:54,720
be isotonic with their

1516
00:57:57,510 --> 00:57:56,240
environment so they keep the salts out

1517
00:58:00,150 --> 00:57:57,520
and they keep this stuff in and when

1518
00:58:03,349 --> 00:58:01,670
this stuff breaks off and becomes

1519
00:58:05,109 --> 00:58:03,359
trimethylamine and can be made into

1520
00:58:06,950 --> 00:58:05,119
methane and co2 and give you terrible

1521
00:58:09,069 --> 00:58:06,960
odors dead fish

1522
00:58:10,950 --> 00:58:09,079
the same thing with sulfur dimethyl

1523
00:58:12,789 --> 00:58:10,960
sulfoniopropionate can everybody say

1524
00:58:14,950 --> 00:58:12,799
that thyme methyl so

1525
00:58:16,950 --> 00:58:14,960
same sort of thing

1526
00:58:18,150 --> 00:58:16,960
but arsenic can substitute for nitrogen

1527
00:58:20,870 --> 00:58:18,160
now

1528
00:58:23,190 --> 00:58:20,880
and form arsenal betaine

1529
00:58:25,190 --> 00:58:23,200
it's an amino acid derivative

1530
00:58:26,230 --> 00:58:25,200
it's glycine with three methyl groups on

1531
00:58:28,470 --> 00:58:26,240
it and now

1532
00:58:32,549 --> 00:58:28,480
an arsenic what the heck is this stuff

1533
00:58:34,309 --> 00:58:32,559
doing and why do critters like lobster

1534
00:58:37,190 --> 00:58:34,319
have really high concentrations of

1535
00:58:38,789 --> 00:58:37,200
arsenic in their tissues in this format

1536
00:58:40,150 --> 00:58:38,799
against the concentration gradient of

1537
00:58:42,309 --> 00:58:40,160
the ocean there's not that much arsenic

1538
00:58:43,670 --> 00:58:42,319
in the ocean it's not model egg

1539
00:58:44,710 --> 00:58:43,680
they're bringing arsenic into their

1540
00:58:47,589 --> 00:58:44,720
cells

1541
00:58:49,910 --> 00:58:47,599
and making this weird compound

1542
00:58:50,870 --> 00:58:49,920
is it substituting for nitrogen are they

1543
00:58:53,510 --> 00:58:50,880
making

1544
00:58:55,670 --> 00:58:53,520
arsenic-based amino acids

1545
00:58:58,309 --> 00:58:55,680
fruit and proteins

1546
00:58:59,510 --> 00:58:58,319
that's that's crazy

1547
00:59:01,510 --> 00:58:59,520
no it's not

1548
00:59:03,349 --> 00:59:01,520
because 20 years ago they said selena

1549
00:59:05,910 --> 00:59:03,359
methionine is crazy and now that's the

1550
00:59:07,670 --> 00:59:05,920
21st amino acid

1551
00:59:10,150 --> 00:59:07,680
so that i would admit is a little bit on

1552
00:59:12,309 --> 00:59:10,160
the edge but it could be

1553
00:59:13,430 --> 00:59:12,319
that it's a repository for animals and

1554
00:59:15,030 --> 00:59:13,440
plants

1555
00:59:16,950 --> 00:59:15,040
to store

1556
00:59:18,870 --> 00:59:16,960
arsenic when they're starved of

1557
00:59:21,270 --> 00:59:18,880
phosphorus

1558
00:59:23,829 --> 00:59:21,280
because this stuff is innocuous

1559
00:59:25,990 --> 00:59:23,839
even though lobsters have lots and lots

1560
00:59:28,150 --> 00:59:26,000
of arsenic in their tissue when we eat

1561
00:59:30,150 --> 00:59:28,160
it it goes down the toilet

1562
00:59:31,589 --> 00:59:30,160
and i keep on telling my wife that it's

1563
00:59:33,109 --> 00:59:31,599
very dangerous you shouldn't be ordering

1564
00:59:34,710 --> 00:59:33,119
these expensive lobster dishes every

1565
00:59:36,549 --> 00:59:34,720
time we go out to eat because you're

1566
00:59:38,870 --> 00:59:36,559
gonna and no it goes down the toilet you

1567
00:59:40,069 --> 00:59:38,880
said it in your lecture so uh but it's

1568
00:59:41,990 --> 00:59:40,079
innocuous

1569
00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:42,000
but maybe in times of phosphorus

1570
00:59:47,510 --> 00:59:43,440
limitation

1571
00:59:49,670 --> 00:59:47,520
various microbes and animals and algae

1572
00:59:51,589 --> 00:59:49,680
could do this swap

1573
00:59:52,470 --> 00:59:51,599
next slide please

1574
00:59:54,789 --> 00:59:52,480
the

1575
00:59:56,390 --> 00:59:54,799
next thing is medical

1576
01:00:00,950 --> 00:59:56,400
and i didn't really touch on this but

1577
01:00:02,470 --> 01:00:00,960
this is a separate topic entirely of

1578
01:00:04,710 --> 01:00:02,480
i told you that arsenic is a

1579
01:00:07,030 --> 01:00:04,720
well-established poison for homicidal

1580
01:00:09,270 --> 01:00:07,040
purposes and for a few dollars more i'll

1581
01:00:11,109 --> 01:00:09,280
tell you more after the lecture

1582
01:00:12,069 --> 01:00:11,119
uh in private

1583
01:00:15,109 --> 01:00:12,079
but

1584
01:00:17,349 --> 01:00:15,119
this is a tragedy on a massive scale

1585
01:00:19,190 --> 01:00:17,359
worldwide

1586
01:00:20,549 --> 01:00:19,200
naturally occurring arsenic in

1587
01:00:22,950 --> 01:00:20,559
groundwaters

1588
01:00:25,510 --> 01:00:22,960
especially in places in south asia like

1589
01:00:27,670 --> 01:00:25,520
bangladesh and and west bengal india and

1590
01:00:28,870 --> 01:00:27,680
now it's being manifested and seen in

1591
01:00:31,270 --> 01:00:28,880
cambodia

1592
01:00:32,710 --> 01:00:31,280
and uh vietnam and

1593
01:00:34,470 --> 01:00:32,720
it's very common it's even common in the

1594
01:00:36,789 --> 01:00:34,480
united states but we can purify the

1595
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:36,799
arsenic out of our waters while many of

1596
01:00:41,829 --> 01:00:39,680
these cultures can't

1597
01:00:43,430 --> 01:00:41,839
a condition known as arsenesis arises

1598
01:00:44,789 --> 01:00:43,440
from drinking water that has too much

1599
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:44,799
arsenic in it

1600
01:00:48,470 --> 01:00:46,319
the arsenic

1601
01:00:51,030 --> 01:00:48,480
has to move out of your body and it's

1602
01:00:52,630 --> 01:00:51,040
the forms of methylated arsenic that

1603
01:00:54,870 --> 01:00:52,640
the body

1604
01:00:57,109 --> 01:00:54,880
metabolizes are nasty corrosive

1605
01:00:59,270 --> 01:00:57,119
chemicals and eventually people die and

1606
01:01:00,950 --> 01:00:59,280
have cancers and and these terrible

1607
01:01:02,870 --> 01:01:00,960
terrible lesions it's not a fun thing

1608
01:01:04,549 --> 01:01:02,880
it's a terrible terrible tragedy on a

1609
01:01:05,510 --> 01:01:04,559
massive scale something like 50 million

1610
01:01:08,069 --> 01:01:05,520
people

1611
01:01:09,750 --> 01:01:08,079
in just in south asia alone

1612
01:01:12,069 --> 01:01:09,760
are drinking water like this and the

1613
01:01:13,030 --> 01:01:12,079
incidence of arsenic psychosis is very

1614
01:01:14,309 --> 01:01:13,040
high

1615
01:01:18,390 --> 01:01:14,319
but

1616
01:01:21,589 --> 01:01:20,150
chairman mao

1617
01:01:23,109 --> 01:01:21,599
during his

1618
01:01:24,549 --> 01:01:23,119
reign

1619
01:01:26,069 --> 01:01:24,559
uh uh

1620
01:01:30,309 --> 01:01:26,079
terror

1621
01:01:34,870 --> 01:01:32,230
he had great affection for the peasants

1622
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:34,880
because the peasants hid the red army

1623
01:01:38,470 --> 01:01:37,200
uh during the revolution and during uh

1624
01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:38,480
world war ii

1625
01:01:41,270 --> 01:01:39,760
and

1626
01:01:44,630 --> 01:01:41,280
in his life among them

1627
01:01:46,069 --> 01:01:44,640
he thought they actually had some

1628
01:01:48,230 --> 01:01:46,079
important things to bring to the

1629
01:01:49,510 --> 01:01:48,240
forefront of society and and since he

1630
01:01:52,870 --> 01:01:49,520
was a tyrant

1631
01:01:54,390 --> 01:01:52,880
he took the intelligentsia

1632
01:01:56,470 --> 01:01:54,400
living in the cities like beijing and

1633
01:01:58,870 --> 01:01:56,480
said you're going out into the fields

1634
01:02:00,309 --> 01:01:58,880
for the next 10 15 years to learn from

1635
01:02:01,510 --> 01:02:00,319
the peasants

1636
01:02:03,990 --> 01:02:01,520
i don't care if you're a doctor lawyer

1637
01:02:05,670 --> 01:02:04,000
indian chief awad you're going out there

1638
01:02:07,349 --> 01:02:05,680
and those that

1639
01:02:08,950 --> 01:02:07,359
did not die

1640
01:02:10,630 --> 01:02:08,960
uh learned a few things and one of the

1641
01:02:12,630 --> 01:02:10,640
few things they learned

1642
01:02:14,309 --> 01:02:12,640
was there was a peasant cure for uh i

1643
01:02:16,470 --> 01:02:14,319
believe it was cancers it was a

1644
01:02:19,510 --> 01:02:16,480
concoction

1645
01:02:21,510 --> 01:02:19,520
of mercury salts and arsenic

1646
01:02:23,109 --> 01:02:21,520
that seemed to have some effect

1647
01:02:24,710 --> 01:02:23,119
a beneficial effect on the patients that

1648
01:02:25,990 --> 01:02:24,720
didn't outright die from exposure to

1649
01:02:27,910 --> 01:02:26,000
these things

1650
01:02:31,430 --> 01:02:27,920
uh

1651
01:02:34,150 --> 01:02:31,440
when mao exited the scene and

1652
01:02:35,589 --> 01:02:34,160
china became more rational

1653
01:02:37,029 --> 01:02:35,599
they started looking into this in a more

1654
01:02:38,470 --> 01:02:37,039
reasonable way

1655
01:02:41,510 --> 01:02:38,480
and they were able to say it's not the

1656
01:02:43,910 --> 01:02:41,520
mercury it's the arsenic is doing it has

1657
01:02:45,589 --> 01:02:43,920
some sort of anti-cancer properties

1658
01:02:46,710 --> 01:02:45,599
and they started working with western

1659
01:02:49,430 --> 01:02:46,720
science

1660
01:02:51,670 --> 01:02:49,440
western medicine and now

1661
01:02:53,589 --> 01:02:51,680
arsenic is used as a treatment a

1662
01:02:55,829 --> 01:02:53,599
chemotherapeutic treatment for certain

1663
01:02:57,750 --> 01:02:55,839
types of neoplasias cancers

1664
01:03:00,549 --> 01:02:57,760
tumors early stages

1665
01:03:03,589 --> 01:03:00,559
with some effectiveness

1666
01:03:05,910 --> 01:03:03,599
but this is an empirical

1667
01:03:07,670 --> 01:03:05,920
basis i mean medicine just sort of goes

1668
01:03:09,349 --> 01:03:07,680
by trial it's hard to

1669
01:03:11,670 --> 01:03:09,359
uh understand the mechanism and if you

1670
01:03:13,190 --> 01:03:11,680
go back to the mechanism well it must be

1671
01:03:15,589 --> 01:03:13,200
acting as an analog

1672
01:03:17,589 --> 01:03:15,599
of oxidative phosphorylation that's what

1673
01:03:20,710 --> 01:03:17,599
the textbook says

1674
01:03:24,309 --> 01:03:22,630
that in

1675
01:03:26,710 --> 01:03:24,319
fast-growing cells that are growing out

1676
01:03:28,230 --> 01:03:26,720
of control in the human body or animal

1677
01:03:31,190 --> 01:03:28,240
bodies

1678
01:03:33,750 --> 01:03:31,200
they may need every molecule of

1679
01:03:37,349 --> 01:03:33,760
phosphorus they can get hold on hold of

1680
01:03:38,710 --> 01:03:37,359
and if you administer to them arsenic

1681
01:03:40,710 --> 01:03:38,720
they'll see the arsenic instead and

1682
01:03:43,109 --> 01:03:40,720
screw up their dna whether it's in the

1683
01:03:45,750 --> 01:03:43,119
nucleus or their uh mitochondria or

1684
01:03:47,829 --> 01:03:45,760
whatever but it doesn't work as well

1685
01:03:50,150 --> 01:03:47,839
and things go haywire in the haywire

1686
01:03:51,430 --> 01:03:50,160
cells and it might be that

1687
01:03:53,510 --> 01:03:51,440
the normal

1688
01:03:55,510 --> 01:03:53,520
immune systems reabsorb the cancer and

1689
01:03:57,750 --> 01:03:55,520
the patient goes into remission i'm just

1690
01:04:00,870 --> 01:03:57,760
making this as a speculation but i think

1691
01:04:03,430 --> 01:04:00,880
there may be medical ramifications uh to

1692
01:04:06,150 --> 01:04:03,440
this finding uh if it's fully accepted

1693
01:04:07,829 --> 01:04:06,160
and reproduced by our colleagues out

1694
01:04:09,510 --> 01:04:07,839
out in the world there and i encourage

1695
01:04:11,510 --> 01:04:09,520
everybody to do that

1696
01:04:13,190 --> 01:04:11,520
so next slide please so we're getting to

1697
01:04:15,029 --> 01:04:13,200
the end here

1698
01:04:17,190 --> 01:04:15,039
this is my final bow i'm actually trying

1699
01:04:20,870 --> 01:04:17,200
to yank a core a couple years ago from

1700
01:04:26,150 --> 01:04:23,109
folks on my project over the years and

1701
01:04:27,589 --> 01:04:26,160
many years larry miller shelly hoff jody

1702
01:04:32,230 --> 01:04:27,599
switzer-blum

1703
01:04:34,470 --> 01:04:32,240
sean baseman tom kulp phyllis wolf simon

1704
01:04:37,750 --> 01:04:34,480
chuck culbertson and mike rosen at the

1705
01:04:39,670 --> 01:04:37,760
district office in carson city

1706
01:04:40,470 --> 01:04:39,680
we've had a lot of interaction

1707
01:04:43,109 --> 01:04:40,480
with

1708
01:04:45,190 --> 01:04:43,119
colleagues in academia

1709
01:04:48,150 --> 01:04:45,200
most notably john stahls john stahls is

1710
01:04:50,470 --> 01:04:48,160
also funded on the same proposal i am

1711
01:04:52,950 --> 01:04:50,480
with nasa exobiology and has been so for

1712
01:04:55,589 --> 01:04:52,960
a long time

1713
01:04:58,549 --> 01:04:55,599
chad soltikov just over the hill uh and

1714
01:05:00,950 --> 01:04:58,559
uc santa cruz uh

1715
01:05:03,829 --> 01:05:00,960
and his his students and and postdocs

1716
01:05:06,470 --> 01:05:03,839
well students brian lenoil uh sookie and

1717
01:05:09,109 --> 01:05:06,480
hans tim hollibaugh jen fisher mike

1718
01:05:12,789 --> 01:05:09,119
madigan and and the list goes on

1719
01:05:14,710 --> 01:05:12,799
uh of course the usgs that uh uh pays my

1720
01:05:15,430 --> 01:05:14,720
salary and the salary of these people

1721
01:05:16,230 --> 01:05:15,440
and

1722
01:05:17,349 --> 01:05:16,240
uh

1723
01:05:19,190 --> 01:05:17,359
nasa

1724
01:05:21,029 --> 01:05:19,200
exobiology that gives us the extra

1725
01:05:23,430 --> 01:05:21,039
amount of money to

1726
01:05:25,270 --> 01:05:23,440
sustain curiosity-driven research along

1727
01:05:26,230 --> 01:05:25,280
these lines and

1728
01:05:28,950 --> 01:05:26,240
nasa

1729
01:05:31,990 --> 01:05:28,960
astrobiology

1730
01:05:33,670 --> 01:05:32,000
which in its various manifestations

1731
01:05:34,950 --> 01:05:33,680
keeps felicia

1732
01:05:37,109 --> 01:05:34,960
on a

1733
01:05:40,309 --> 01:05:37,119
marginal salary compared to the usgs

1734
01:05:41,349 --> 01:05:40,319
postdocs uh next slide please

1735
01:05:44,630 --> 01:05:41,359
so

1736
01:05:46,630 --> 01:05:44,640
i heard and met

1737
01:05:48,870 --> 01:05:46,640
folks from the carnegie institution that

1738
01:05:50,789 --> 01:05:48,880
came all the way down

1739
01:05:52,549 --> 01:05:50,799
from new york's west side

1740
01:05:54,789 --> 01:05:52,559
uh to be here they're in the front row

1741
01:05:55,589 --> 01:05:54,799
here i didn't smell any uh uh corned

1742
01:05:58,309 --> 01:05:55,599
beef

1743
01:06:01,270 --> 01:05:58,319
uh but uh i heard

1744
01:06:05,190 --> 01:06:01,280
uh that uh mike new is gonna

1745
01:06:06,870 --> 01:06:05,200
fry up some latkes and uh

1746
01:06:08,309 --> 01:06:06,880
matt kane brought some brisket and we're

1747
01:06:10,950 --> 01:06:08,319
going to celebrate hanukkah the writers

1748
01:06:13,270 --> 01:06:10,960
after this is over but the carnegie is

1749
01:06:15,510 --> 01:06:13,280
really an institution

1750
01:06:18,390 --> 01:06:15,520
i mean you speak carnegie

1751
01:06:20,069 --> 01:06:18,400
and this is where uh andrew got started

1752
01:06:20,950 --> 01:06:20,079
he was behind the counter slicing corned

1753
01:06:22,870 --> 01:06:20,960
beef

1754
01:06:24,870 --> 01:06:22,880
uh and this is where the fa they really

1755
01:06:26,549 --> 01:06:24,880
was karnawaski was the that was the name

1756
01:06:28,069 --> 01:06:26,559
and it got changed they branched out

1757
01:06:29,670 --> 01:06:28,079
into steel and stuff but this is what

1758
01:06:33,990 --> 01:06:29,680
funds you guys

1759
01:06:38,549 --> 01:06:35,829
that that is very important and that

1760
01:06:40,630 --> 01:06:38,559
keeps us fed and going uh that is very

1761
01:06:42,710 --> 01:06:40,640
much unappreciated i think in a modern

1762
01:06:45,430 --> 01:06:42,720
world in fact it's an institution

1763
01:06:48,230 --> 01:06:45,440
because if you ever saw the movie uh

1764
01:06:50,309 --> 01:06:48,240
broadway danny rose with woody allen uh

1765
01:06:52,390 --> 01:06:50,319
all the comedians

1766
01:06:53,910 --> 01:06:52,400
after their they do their shtick are

1767
01:06:55,750 --> 01:06:53,920
always depicted

1768
01:06:57,270 --> 01:06:55,760
uh in in the carnegie they're always

1769
01:06:58,950 --> 01:06:57,280
talking back there and this is where i

1770
01:07:00,710 --> 01:06:58,960
get to talk like jackie mason because he

1771
01:07:01,990 --> 01:07:00,720
was probably one of the people back

1772
01:07:03,190 --> 01:07:02,000
there he didn't like the sandwich the

1773
01:07:04,630 --> 01:07:03,200
portions used to be like this i don't

1774
01:07:06,710 --> 01:07:04,640
know what happened what's the matter

1775
01:07:08,309 --> 01:07:06,720
with this place anyway i think that's

1776
01:07:09,589 --> 01:07:08,319
all i have next slide is there anything

1777
01:07:13,990 --> 01:07:09,599
else

1778
01:07:16,710 --> 01:07:15,349
these are the people that really make it

1779
01:07:18,470 --> 01:07:16,720
go

1780
01:07:19,510 --> 01:07:18,480
the ones that should be getting all the

1781
01:07:20,870 --> 01:07:19,520
credit

1782
01:07:23,750 --> 01:07:20,880
and here it comes

1783
01:07:25,750 --> 01:07:23,760
rolling these are the true stars

1784
01:07:27,990 --> 01:07:25,760
and this is the biofilm

1785
01:07:28,710 --> 01:07:28,000
uh from that red biofilm that i showed

1786
01:07:33,670 --> 01:07:28,720
you

1787
01:07:35,349 --> 01:07:33,680
they're really fun to look at and

1788
01:07:37,270 --> 01:07:35,359
they're incredibly diverse you're seeing

1789
01:07:39,109 --> 01:07:37,280
all kinds of different things there

1790
01:07:42,309 --> 01:07:39,119
and

1791
01:07:45,349 --> 01:07:42,319
you lose the wonder

1792
01:07:46,870 --> 01:07:45,359
of these phenomena if you don't get more

1793
01:07:48,950 --> 01:07:46,880
intimately associated with these

1794
01:07:49,990 --> 01:07:48,960
microbes if you're just extracting the

1795
01:07:52,789 --> 01:07:50,000
dna

1796
01:07:54,069 --> 01:07:52,799
and doing meta genomics and proteomics

1797
01:07:56,069 --> 01:07:54,079
and

1798
01:07:57,670 --> 01:07:56,079
you become detached look at these guys

1799
01:07:59,750 --> 01:07:57,680
look at how diverse they are some are

1800
01:08:01,190 --> 01:07:59,760
mobile some are going like rockets

1801
01:08:02,950 --> 01:08:01,200
they're all different shapes and sizes

1802
01:08:05,589 --> 01:08:02,960
and yet even that primitive

1803
01:08:10,630 --> 01:08:07,589
analyses we had said well they're mostly

1804
01:08:12,870 --> 01:08:10,640
ectothyroid aspara and a few archaea

1805
01:08:15,349 --> 01:08:12,880
okay let's move on no the what your eyes

1806
01:08:17,110 --> 01:08:15,359
tell you something very different

1807
01:08:18,550 --> 01:08:17,120
so this is a fascinating place don't

1808
01:08:20,309 --> 01:08:18,560
lose the wonder

1809
01:08:22,630 --> 01:08:20,319
of a little kid looking under the

1810
01:08:24,470 --> 01:08:22,640
doctor's microscope it's always exciting

1811
01:08:26,470 --> 01:08:24,480
let's get back to some of the basics and

1812
01:08:28,229 --> 01:08:26,480
embellish it with the new stuff

1813
01:08:30,149 --> 01:08:28,239
so i thank you

1814
01:08:45,669 --> 01:08:30,159
and

1815
01:08:50,870 --> 01:08:48,309
so ron when you

1816
01:08:55,269 --> 01:08:50,880
extract dna from

1817
01:09:00,070 --> 01:08:57,430
i'm talking now about the ones

1818
01:09:03,990 --> 01:09:01,829
you're

1819
01:09:06,630 --> 01:09:04,000
detecting

1820
01:09:09,030 --> 01:09:06,640
arsenic in dna

1821
01:09:12,229 --> 01:09:09,040
when you extract dna from them

1822
01:09:13,669 --> 01:09:12,239
you also still detect some phosphorus

1823
01:09:16,309 --> 01:09:13,679
correct

1824
01:09:18,630 --> 01:09:16,319
so you can quantify dna

1825
01:09:20,550 --> 01:09:18,640
and you can quantify phosphorus

1826
01:09:23,110 --> 01:09:20,560
so you should be able to do for example

1827
01:09:25,269 --> 01:09:23,120
a simple back of the hand calculation of

1828
01:09:28,070 --> 01:09:25,279
how much phosphorus you would expect to

1829
01:09:30,630 --> 01:09:28,080
find in that much dna

1830
01:09:31,749 --> 01:09:30,640
and so if arsenic is is replacing the

1831
01:09:36,149 --> 01:09:31,759
phosphorus

1832
01:09:38,470 --> 01:09:36,159
to be low right

1833
01:09:40,229 --> 01:09:38,480
so what do you get we get a low number i

1834
01:09:42,789 --> 01:09:40,239
can't give it to you off the top of my

1835
01:09:45,110 --> 01:09:42,799
head it conforms with that

1836
01:09:48,870 --> 01:09:45,120
notion but it's not perfect it's there's

1837
01:09:52,070 --> 01:09:48,880
this slush in that number the rastering

1838
01:09:53,430 --> 01:09:52,080
process as i understand it of nano sims

1839
01:09:55,430 --> 01:09:53,440
doesn't give you

1840
01:09:57,270 --> 01:09:55,440
precise numbers it says there's a lot of

1841
01:09:58,630 --> 01:09:57,280
arsenic in this spot

1842
01:09:59,590 --> 01:09:58,640
there's a little less in this spot

1843
01:10:01,030 --> 01:09:59,600
there's a little more in this spot

1844
01:10:02,149 --> 01:10:01,040
there's a little bit of phosphorus there

1845
01:10:04,310 --> 01:10:02,159
there's a little bit more phosphorus

1846
01:10:06,310 --> 01:10:04,320
it's not a precise thing we should it

1847
01:10:08,390 --> 01:10:06,320
they did the same thing for uh vicki

1848
01:10:11,430 --> 01:10:08,400
orphan's work on on aerobic methane

1849
01:10:12,709 --> 01:10:11,440
oxidation for stable carbon uh

1850
01:10:14,709 --> 01:10:12,719
isotopes

1851
01:10:16,630 --> 01:10:14,719
this is minus sixty this is minus eighty

1852
01:10:19,030 --> 01:10:16,640
this is minus seven but it showed the

1853
01:10:20,149 --> 01:10:19,040
point and here we're just trying to do a

1854
01:10:22,390 --> 01:10:20,159
crude

1855
01:10:24,630 --> 01:10:22,400
point there's arsenic a lot of arsenic

1856
01:10:26,070 --> 01:10:24,640
in the dna not very much phosphorus and

1857
01:10:28,630 --> 01:10:26,080
that's really all we can say that's the

1858
01:10:31,669 --> 01:10:28,640
limitation well so you know there's a

1859
01:10:34,070 --> 01:10:31,679
arsenic associated with the dna but

1860
01:10:35,270 --> 01:10:34,080
actually showing it's in the dna

1861
01:10:37,590 --> 01:10:35,280
you know

1862
01:10:39,590 --> 01:10:37,600
is is

1863
01:10:41,510 --> 01:10:39,600
perhaps a little more complicated and so

1864
01:10:42,390 --> 01:10:41,520
that's what i'm trying to get at is

1865
01:10:44,390 --> 01:10:42,400
you know

1866
01:10:45,510 --> 01:10:44,400
do you have any idea for example what

1867
01:10:47,430 --> 01:10:45,520
percent

1868
01:10:49,910 --> 01:10:47,440
of the phosphorus molecules have been

1869
01:10:51,750 --> 01:10:49,920
replaced by arsenic in arsenal i can't

1870
01:10:53,669 --> 01:10:51,760
give you a number on that but i think

1871
01:10:54,790 --> 01:10:53,679
it's a very high number

1872
01:10:56,550 --> 01:10:54,800
a very high number because they don't

1873
01:10:57,990 --> 01:10:56,560
grow in phosphorus i mean they don't

1874
01:11:00,070 --> 01:10:58,000
grow in the absence of phosphorus and

1875
01:11:01,910 --> 01:11:00,080
there's not enough trace phosphorus

1876
01:11:04,390 --> 01:11:01,920
in the in the contaminants to sustain

1877
01:11:07,590 --> 01:11:04,400
this right so i think if you look

1878
01:11:10,950 --> 01:11:07,600
qualitatively at our data right it's

1879
01:11:13,750 --> 01:11:10,960
compelling if you want precise numbers

1880
01:11:15,830 --> 01:11:13,760
that say how much arsenic is in the dna

1881
01:11:17,910 --> 01:11:15,840
how much phosphorus is there

1882
01:11:19,590 --> 01:11:17,920
that's work that should be done down the

1883
01:11:22,070 --> 01:11:19,600
line that has to be done

1884
01:11:24,070 --> 01:11:22,080
but we cannot and people are asking and

1885
01:11:26,950 --> 01:11:24,080
really really looking at our data set

1886
01:11:29,030 --> 01:11:26,960
very closely uh we're getting

1887
01:11:30,950 --> 01:11:29,040
uh

1888
01:11:31,990 --> 01:11:30,960
we're trying to build

1889
01:11:33,669 --> 01:11:32,000
uh

1890
01:11:34,950 --> 01:11:33,679
a good argument and there's more that

1891
01:11:36,550 --> 01:11:34,960
needs to be done but people are throwing

1892
01:11:38,709 --> 01:11:36,560
stones at us and as soon as they throw

1893
01:11:41,030 --> 01:11:38,719
enough stones we're gonna build a decent

1894
01:11:43,350 --> 01:11:41,040
argument uh no seriously this is work

1895
01:11:45,350 --> 01:11:43,360
for the future we cannot answer

1896
01:11:47,750 --> 01:11:45,360
all these questions with the

1897
01:11:50,310 --> 01:11:47,760
uh precision that uh the critics are

1898
01:11:51,270 --> 01:11:50,320
saying now i will admit to that

1899
01:11:53,350 --> 01:11:51,280
easily

1900
01:11:55,830 --> 01:11:53,360
but i think it's it's compelling that

1901
01:11:57,910 --> 01:11:55,840
felicia has shown

1902
01:12:00,870 --> 01:11:57,920
there's arsenic in the dna and it looks

1903
01:12:02,470 --> 01:12:00,880
like a lot and they don't grow

1904
01:12:04,550 --> 01:12:02,480
with the amount of phosphorus that's

1905
01:12:05,990 --> 01:12:04,560
there so something very strange is going

1906
01:12:07,830 --> 01:12:06,000
on with arsenic

1907
01:12:10,470 --> 01:12:07,840
and we need to examine the dna more

1908
01:12:13,110 --> 01:12:10,480
closely of our syncron cells uh we need

1909
01:12:15,270 --> 01:12:13,120
to do endonucleases we need to do fancy

1910
01:12:16,550 --> 01:12:15,280
schmancy things and make a more

1911
01:12:17,910 --> 01:12:16,560
compelling evidence but these were the

1912
01:12:19,350 --> 01:12:17,920
tools we had

1913
01:12:21,590 --> 01:12:19,360
we had something

1914
01:12:23,910 --> 01:12:21,600
when it popped out of the test tube and

1915
01:12:26,630 --> 01:12:23,920
so i'm here and it's arsenic so what can

1916
01:12:27,590 --> 01:12:26,640
we do to convince ourselves besides the

1917
01:12:29,750 --> 01:12:27,600
growth

1918
01:12:31,350 --> 01:12:29,760
and besides some crude calculations

1919
01:12:35,110 --> 01:12:31,360
these three analyses

1920
01:12:38,149 --> 01:12:35,120
the radioisotopes the icp ms i mean the

1921
01:12:39,830 --> 01:12:38,159
uh uh the nanoscience and uh the xf

1922
01:12:41,990 --> 01:12:39,840
zanes we thought it was enough three

1923
01:12:43,910 --> 01:12:42,000
different techniques gave us arsenic and

1924
01:12:46,470 --> 01:12:43,920
dna of our synchron cells phosphorus and

1925
01:12:50,790 --> 01:12:46,480
phosphorus crown cells it's known that's

1926
01:12:56,229 --> 01:12:53,430
uh other cells are austenotrophic

1927
01:13:00,229 --> 01:12:58,149
you saw the definitions

1928
01:13:02,229 --> 01:13:00,239
uh these arsenic resistance what i'm

1929
01:13:04,630 --> 01:13:02,239
calling arsenic trophy are

1930
01:13:08,070 --> 01:13:04,640
microbes that make energy from arsenic

1931
01:13:09,990 --> 01:13:08,080
by oxidation or respiration these don't

1932
01:13:12,550 --> 01:13:10,000
but that doesn't mean

1933
01:13:14,390 --> 01:13:12,560
others don't do both

1934
01:13:16,630 --> 01:13:14,400
and we are looking towards that and we

1935
01:13:18,709 --> 01:13:16,640
have some candidates

1936
01:13:20,070 --> 01:13:18,719
in culture that are

1937
01:13:21,910 --> 01:13:20,080
anaerobes

1938
01:13:25,750 --> 01:13:21,920
that i can't talk more about right now

1939
01:13:31,430 --> 01:13:27,750
a good question

1940
01:13:35,830 --> 01:13:32,470
the audience

1941
01:13:37,430 --> 01:13:35,840
uh the peanut gallery uh in tv land

1942
01:13:39,030 --> 01:13:37,440
to

1943
01:13:41,110 --> 01:13:39,040
do these experiments on your own you can

1944
01:13:43,030 --> 01:13:41,120
do this in in your own lab

1945
01:13:45,189 --> 01:13:43,040
uh i don't think it's confined to mono

1946
01:13:47,350 --> 01:13:45,199
lake or an arsenic-rich environment i

1947
01:13:49,590 --> 01:13:47,360
think it's a common phenomena and people

1948
01:13:51,590 --> 01:13:49,600
are going to ha if this is true and i

1949
01:13:54,390 --> 01:13:51,600
believe we have compelling evidence but

1950
01:13:58,070 --> 01:13:54,400
others have to test it independently and

1951
01:14:02,390 --> 01:14:00,149
that i think it's going to happen it's

1952
01:14:03,590 --> 01:14:02,400
the way science works you

1953
01:14:05,350 --> 01:14:03,600
there's a community that says this is

1954
01:14:07,350 --> 01:14:05,360
great let's get it published

1955
01:14:08,790 --> 01:14:07,360
uh then the people who did the work

1956
01:14:11,669 --> 01:14:08,800
uh get the rocks thrown at them and

1957
01:14:13,350 --> 01:14:11,679
sometimes the rocks are very very nasty

1958
01:14:15,110 --> 01:14:13,360
einstein went through some terrible

1959
01:14:17,270 --> 01:14:15,120
stuff on a more personal level stan

1960
01:14:19,590 --> 01:14:17,280
proustner with prions

1961
01:14:22,070 --> 01:14:19,600
came up with this idea and he suffered

1962
01:14:23,830 --> 01:14:22,080
immensely i actually know him and he

1963
01:14:25,590 --> 01:14:23,840
said it forced him to elevate his his

1964
01:14:27,030 --> 01:14:25,600
work

1965
01:14:28,070 --> 01:14:27,040
to the point that everybody accepted it

1966
01:14:30,390 --> 01:14:28,080
and now everybody's jumped on the

1967
01:14:32,310 --> 01:14:30,400
pre-owned story i see dozens and dozens

1968
01:14:33,990 --> 01:14:32,320
of papers every month i'm pre-owned this

1969
01:14:35,030 --> 01:14:34,000
behind that it's in nature it's science

1970
01:14:39,030 --> 01:14:35,040
and he's not one of the authors he did

1971
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:41,590
i hope

1972
01:14:45,990 --> 01:14:43,590
i was noticing in some of your early

1973
01:14:49,270 --> 01:14:46,000
slides you did a lot of kilt controls

1974
01:14:50,630 --> 01:14:49,280
did you consider doing kilt controls to

1975
01:14:52,630 --> 01:14:50,640
control for

1976
01:14:55,510 --> 01:14:52,640
non-specific binding during extractions

1977
01:14:57,350 --> 01:14:55,520
for your icbms work for instance

1978
01:14:59,189 --> 01:14:57,360
things like that i think uh killed

1979
01:15:02,229 --> 01:14:59,199
control in in this situation i think

1980
01:15:03,590 --> 01:15:02,239
felicia did some of those uh but

1981
01:15:05,910 --> 01:15:03,600
if you do

1982
01:15:07,510 --> 01:15:05,920
if how do you kill your control for icp

1983
01:15:08,550 --> 01:15:07,520
ms are you killing the just blown

1984
01:15:09,510 --> 01:15:08,560
everything apart what do you what are

1985
01:15:11,430 --> 01:15:09,520
you gonna do

1986
01:15:14,229 --> 01:15:11,440
i don't understand just take your your

1987
01:15:16,550 --> 01:15:14,239
normal bug without arsenic enrichment or

1988
01:15:18,229 --> 01:15:16,560
phosphate in richmond kill it put it

1989
01:15:21,110 --> 01:15:18,239
into the media and then extract from

1990
01:15:23,030 --> 01:15:21,120
that i think she did that uh i know she

1991
01:15:25,590 --> 01:15:23,040
did it for arsenic and phosphorus i'm

1992
01:15:26,630 --> 01:15:25,600
not sure she did it in that condition

1993
01:15:28,950 --> 01:15:26,640
but

1994
01:15:30,310 --> 01:15:28,960
where's my brisket

1995
01:15:32,470 --> 01:15:30,320
you look you look like you eat your

1996
01:15:34,310 --> 01:15:32,480
pastrami on white bread with

1997
01:15:38,550 --> 01:15:34,320
with mayonnaise and tomatoes get out of

1998
01:15:42,070 --> 01:15:40,950
no it's a decent question i didn't mean

1999
01:15:44,470 --> 01:15:42,080
to

2000
01:15:46,470 --> 01:15:44,480
actually have two questions um

2001
01:15:48,790 --> 01:15:46,480
what is the composition of the vacuoles

2002
01:15:50,070 --> 01:15:48,800
that you find in the cells that you've

2003
01:15:51,430 --> 01:15:50,080
enriched for

2004
01:15:53,990 --> 01:15:51,440
the arsenate

2005
01:15:58,070 --> 01:15:54,000
we don't know

2006
01:15:59,270 --> 01:15:58,080
could be polyhydroxybutyrate could be

2007
01:16:01,669 --> 01:15:59,280
something else we haven't done those

2008
01:16:03,830 --> 01:16:01,679
analyses we know they're there

2009
01:16:05,910 --> 01:16:03,840
but we don't know what they're made of

2010
01:16:07,910 --> 01:16:05,920
okay and how that is related to arsenic

2011
01:16:09,510 --> 01:16:07,920
we don't know but it might be different

2012
01:16:11,910 --> 01:16:09,520
polarity solvents who the hell knows

2013
01:16:15,110 --> 01:16:11,920
that stabilizes the arsenic and you know

2014
01:16:16,630 --> 01:16:15,120
those are things the decades of work

2015
01:16:19,510 --> 01:16:16,640
good good point though

2016
01:16:21,990 --> 01:16:19,520
um my my second question was that um

2017
01:16:24,630 --> 01:16:22,000
the arsenal life

2018
01:16:26,390 --> 01:16:24,640
and it is certainly testable

2019
01:16:28,470 --> 01:16:26,400
the average composition of organic

2020
01:16:29,830 --> 01:16:28,480
matter typically is your carbon nitrogen

2021
01:16:32,950 --> 01:16:29,840
oxygen hydrogen

2022
01:16:38,950 --> 01:16:35,590
but typically you don't find or see such

2023
01:16:40,709 --> 01:16:38,960
high levels of arsenic have you taken

2024
01:16:42,550 --> 01:16:40,719
samples from these hot springs and

2025
01:16:44,870 --> 01:16:42,560
actually looked to see if you have

2026
01:16:48,790 --> 01:16:44,880
very large concentrations of arsenic in

2027
01:16:51,510 --> 01:16:49,990
uh

2028
01:16:53,750 --> 01:16:51,520
this is

2029
01:16:55,430 --> 01:16:53,760
an area for future work

2030
01:16:57,030 --> 01:16:55,440
uh and don't forget

2031
01:16:58,470 --> 01:16:57,040
these systems also have very high

2032
01:17:00,870 --> 01:16:58,480
phosphate

2033
01:17:02,950 --> 01:17:00,880
there's about three to five times more

2034
01:17:04,229 --> 01:17:02,960
phosphorus in monolake waters than there

2035
01:17:05,510 --> 01:17:04,239
is arsenic

2036
01:17:07,590 --> 01:17:05,520
motor like waters are limited by

2037
01:17:09,110 --> 01:17:07,600
nitrogen not phosphorous they're rich in

2038
01:17:11,510 --> 01:17:09,120
light and phosphorus they're also rich

2039
01:17:15,030 --> 01:17:11,520
in arsenic so you get both

2040
01:17:17,590 --> 01:17:15,040
there are some environments the

2041
01:17:20,229 --> 01:17:17,600
endolithic communities that seem to be

2042
01:17:21,110 --> 01:17:20,239
largely dominated uh low in phosphorus

2043
01:17:22,390 --> 01:17:21,120
but

2044
01:17:24,390 --> 01:17:22,400
we didn't want to work with those

2045
01:17:27,430 --> 01:17:24,400
because mono lake is right next door

2046
01:17:28,870 --> 01:17:27,440
let's start out with a low-hanging fruit

2047
01:17:31,750 --> 01:17:28,880
but

2048
01:17:33,110 --> 01:17:31,760
a bit further down the road uh

2049
01:17:34,630 --> 01:17:33,120
there's there's different ways this work

2050
01:17:35,990 --> 01:17:34,640
can go

2051
01:17:38,310 --> 01:17:36,000
some of it should go to the molecular

2052
01:17:40,790 --> 01:17:38,320
level with with uh cultures where it's

2053
01:17:42,229 --> 01:17:40,800
been established like a

2054
01:17:44,709 --> 01:17:42,239
gfaj

2055
01:17:46,470 --> 01:17:44,719
and find out

2056
01:17:48,390 --> 01:17:46,480
to answer questions like matt kaine's

2057
01:17:49,350 --> 01:17:48,400
you know is it in the dna how much of it

2058
01:17:50,870 --> 01:17:49,360
is there

2059
01:17:53,270 --> 01:17:50,880
how is it structured what's the crystal

2060
01:17:55,110 --> 01:17:53,280
structure how does this work how does

2061
01:17:56,950 --> 01:17:55,120
transcription and translation work of an

2062
01:17:59,790 --> 01:17:56,960
arsenic encoded all that stuff what

2063
01:18:04,310 --> 01:17:59,800
about metabolites how how efficient is

2064
01:18:07,910 --> 01:18:04,320
ats versus atp and all that stuff

2065
01:18:10,470 --> 01:18:07,920
uh how does arsenic uh activate

2066
01:18:12,310 --> 01:18:10,480
uh uh biosynthesis and catabolism like

2067
01:18:13,669 --> 01:18:12,320
phosphate does

2068
01:18:14,630 --> 01:18:13,679
it's all open

2069
01:18:16,870 --> 01:18:14,640
uh

2070
01:18:18,229 --> 01:18:16,880
the other avenue is isolating more

2071
01:18:19,590 --> 01:18:18,239
examples

2072
01:18:21,189 --> 01:18:19,600
of this from the natural world and

2073
01:18:23,350 --> 01:18:21,199
testing cultures

2074
01:18:24,870 --> 01:18:23,360
from populations that are held in in

2075
01:18:27,590 --> 01:18:24,880
cultural collections

2076
01:18:28,630 --> 01:18:27,600
uh and examine the physiology of these

2077
01:18:30,870 --> 01:18:28,640
critics to show that it's more

2078
01:18:33,189 --> 01:18:30,880
widespread and may have significance

2079
01:18:34,870 --> 01:18:33,199
maybe back four billion years when there

2080
01:18:36,229 --> 01:18:34,880
was more arsenic available than perhaps

2081
01:18:38,229 --> 01:18:36,239
phosphorus

2082
01:18:39,669 --> 01:18:38,239
the third area is ecological and this is

2083
01:18:40,790 --> 01:18:39,679
where

2084
01:18:43,669 --> 01:18:40,800
i would address what you're talking

2085
01:18:47,110 --> 01:18:43,679
about can you take natural populations

2086
01:18:48,950 --> 01:18:47,120
and arsenic-rich systems and see uh xf

2087
01:18:51,350 --> 01:18:48,960
zanes

2088
01:18:52,790 --> 01:18:51,360
of natural populations that say

2089
01:18:54,470 --> 01:18:52,800
oh there's you know phosphorus

2090
01:18:56,470 --> 01:18:54,480
containing dna but there's signal here

2091
01:18:58,790 --> 01:18:56,480
also for rocks for

2092
01:19:01,430 --> 01:18:58,800
arsenic-containing dna or some other

2093
01:19:03,110 --> 01:19:01,440
fancy analytical uh approach to say that

2094
01:19:04,470 --> 01:19:03,120
this can actually occur in the

2095
01:19:06,310 --> 01:19:04,480
environment right now we just have it in

2096
01:19:08,790 --> 01:19:06,320
a manipulated test tube

2097
01:19:11,270 --> 01:19:08,800
and it works that's all we have

2098
01:19:12,709 --> 01:19:11,280
uh we don't have any of these other

2099
01:19:14,070 --> 01:19:12,719
other things yet

2100
01:19:15,750 --> 01:19:14,080
but those are directions for future

2101
01:19:24,790 --> 01:19:15,760
research

2102
01:19:29,510 --> 01:19:27,110
more of a compositional question that in

2103
01:19:31,189 --> 01:19:29,520
dna carbon nitrogen hydrogen phosphorus

2104
01:19:32,950 --> 01:19:31,199
is a particular ratio

2105
01:19:35,350 --> 01:19:32,960
so when you are looking at the material

2106
01:19:38,310 --> 01:19:35,360
is it in the dna or somewhere else you

2107
01:19:40,790 --> 01:19:38,320
can simply do ratios and from that ratio

2108
01:19:43,189 --> 01:19:40,800
you can tell the material is dna and not

2109
01:19:45,510 --> 01:19:43,199
even not knowing it's a dna or not have

2110
01:19:47,590 --> 01:19:45,520
you done ratio with nitrogen or carbon

2111
01:19:48,950 --> 01:19:47,600
or hydrogen there are ratios published

2112
01:19:52,149 --> 01:19:48,960
in the paper i think they were related

2113
01:19:55,189 --> 01:19:52,159
to carbon uh they're crude numbers

2114
01:19:58,310 --> 01:19:55,199
but they're not uh uh

2115
01:20:00,229 --> 01:19:58,320
really carefully done studies of sort of

2116
01:20:02,790 --> 01:20:00,239
like things that came off

2117
01:20:05,189 --> 01:20:02,800
the nano sims work for example

2118
01:20:06,870 --> 01:20:05,199
but they're not red field ratios

2119
01:20:08,149 --> 01:20:06,880
they're not we're not we don't take that

2120
01:20:10,390 --> 01:20:08,159
revenue those are things again that

2121
01:20:12,470 --> 01:20:10,400
could be looked at in the future uh you

2122
01:20:14,390 --> 01:20:12,480
know the red field ratio is canonized

2123
01:20:15,669 --> 01:20:14,400
it's in the textbook right this is what

2124
01:20:18,149 --> 01:20:15,679
it has to be because it's in the

2125
01:20:19,830 --> 01:20:18,159
textbook and the textbook before that

2126
01:20:21,350 --> 01:20:19,840
had it there and so did that textbook

2127
01:20:23,430 --> 01:20:21,360
have it there because redfield published

2128
01:20:25,430 --> 01:20:23,440
it was it 50 years ago it must be true

2129
01:20:27,350 --> 01:20:25,440
right because all the textbooks say that

2130
01:20:29,270 --> 01:20:27,360
but what if those ratios are not always

2131
01:20:31,030 --> 01:20:29,280
the same and they shift around a lot and

2132
01:20:33,110 --> 01:20:31,040
they may change a bit for

2133
01:20:34,629 --> 01:20:33,120
elements based on how much dna is there

2134
01:20:36,390 --> 01:20:34,639
maybe only a portion of the dna is

2135
01:20:37,910 --> 01:20:36,400
needed when they're grown on artists i

2136
01:20:40,070 --> 01:20:37,920
don't know

2137
01:20:41,510 --> 01:20:40,080
and maybe those ratios break down if you

2138
01:20:43,189 --> 01:20:41,520
can get things growing on our snake for

2139
01:20:44,950 --> 01:20:43,199
god's sakes

2140
01:20:46,390 --> 01:20:44,960
i don't think you know these ratios are

2141
01:20:47,990 --> 01:20:46,400
necessarily going to be whole they

2142
01:20:51,030 --> 01:20:48,000
should be looked at we need to find them

2143
01:20:53,350 --> 01:20:51,040
out but they shouldn't be canonized

2144
01:20:55,350 --> 01:20:53,360
the reason is it if it replacing just

2145
01:20:57,750 --> 01:20:55,360
first for us i think that probably will

2146
01:20:59,910 --> 01:20:57,760
be more likely than doing a major change

2147
01:21:01,830 --> 01:20:59,920
in the macromolecule because the

2148
01:21:03,990 --> 01:21:01,840
machinery of the cell is not going to

2149
01:21:06,310 --> 01:21:04,000
change that much in replication

2150
01:21:09,189 --> 01:21:06,320
transcription all those so

2151
01:21:11,030 --> 01:21:09,199
it general logic will be the replacement

2152
01:21:13,030 --> 01:21:11,040
is very conservative

2153
01:21:14,709 --> 01:21:13,040
if at all it will be very conservative

2154
01:21:16,950 --> 01:21:14,719
it is worth looking at and should be

2155
01:21:19,189 --> 01:21:16,960
looked at we haven't done it

2156
01:21:20,870 --> 01:21:19,199
i'm sorry we can't do everything but

2157
01:21:23,189 --> 01:21:20,880
somebody should do it

2158
01:21:25,110 --> 01:21:23,199
so um have you and your colleagues given

2159
01:21:28,310 --> 01:21:25,120
any thought to

2160
01:21:29,910 --> 01:21:28,320
synthetic dna making synthetic dna with

2161
01:21:31,750 --> 01:21:29,920
arsenic in it

2162
01:21:33,669 --> 01:21:31,760
felicia this is what brought her in

2163
01:21:35,910 --> 01:21:33,679
she's been obsessed with this and uh

2164
01:21:37,910 --> 01:21:35,920
steve banner had been talking about this

2165
01:21:40,310 --> 01:21:37,920
he he doesn't like this at all

2166
01:21:41,430 --> 01:21:40,320
because in his synthetic system arsenic

2167
01:21:42,870 --> 01:21:41,440
doesn't work

2168
01:21:43,910 --> 01:21:42,880
but he's not dealing with a cell he's

2169
01:21:45,110 --> 01:21:43,920
dealing with

2170
01:21:46,229 --> 01:21:45,120
solvents

2171
01:21:48,550 --> 01:21:46,239
and water

2172
01:21:50,550 --> 01:21:48,560
and it doesn't work it's unstable so he

2173
01:21:52,790 --> 01:21:50,560
infers if this is real and we believe it

2174
01:21:55,510 --> 01:21:52,800
is he needs to be convinced there must

2175
01:21:57,350 --> 01:21:55,520
be stabilizing mechanisms

2176
01:21:58,390 --> 01:21:57,360
to keep the arsenic working

2177
01:21:59,830 --> 01:21:58,400
and

2178
01:22:01,830 --> 01:21:59,840
let's look for them well you know i'm

2179
01:22:03,030 --> 01:22:01,840
also wondering if there aren't

2180
01:22:05,189 --> 01:22:03,040
ways of

2181
01:22:06,790 --> 01:22:05,199
at least amplifying

2182
01:22:08,870 --> 01:22:06,800
with pcr

2183
01:22:10,870 --> 01:22:08,880
arsenic containing even that would be a

2184
01:22:13,990 --> 01:22:10,880
fun thing to do is to instead of using

2185
01:22:16,070 --> 01:22:14,000
the phosphate and the pcr uh replace it

2186
01:22:17,990 --> 01:22:16,080
with arsenic but these are there's

2187
01:22:18,950 --> 01:22:18,000
dozens and dozens of things that could

2188
01:22:22,229 --> 01:22:18,960
be done

2189
01:22:23,669 --> 01:22:22,239
them

2190
01:22:25,030 --> 01:22:23,679
because in the interest of getting the

2191
01:22:26,550 --> 01:22:25,040
idea out

2192
01:22:28,149 --> 01:22:26,560
after we'd worked on it for a year which

2193
01:22:29,990 --> 01:22:28,159
is pretty dang good we thought we had

2194
01:22:30,790 --> 01:22:30,000
enough uh

2195
01:22:33,030 --> 01:22:30,800
the

2196
01:22:34,709 --> 01:22:33,040
radio label experiments were were very

2197
01:22:36,870 --> 01:22:34,719
difficult

2198
01:22:39,270 --> 01:22:36,880
they didn't

2199
01:22:41,669 --> 01:22:39,280
go as easily as we thought they would uh

2200
01:22:43,430 --> 01:22:41,679
based on what arsenic oxidation or

2201
01:22:44,470 --> 01:22:43,440
arsenic respiration is or like sulfate

2202
01:22:47,189 --> 01:22:44,480
reduction

2203
01:22:49,910 --> 01:22:47,199
it was it was a hard hard process

2204
01:22:50,790 --> 01:22:49,920
and i think we had enough

2205
01:22:52,470 --> 01:22:50,800
uh

2206
01:22:54,550 --> 01:22:52,480
to get the point out

2207
01:22:56,709 --> 01:22:54,560
and certainly the reviewers liked it and

2208
01:22:59,350 --> 01:22:56,719
now the community is

2209
01:23:00,950 --> 01:22:59,360
gonna judge but uh uh what are you gonna

2210
01:23:03,910 --> 01:23:00,960
see and then after it's formally

2211
01:23:06,310 --> 01:23:03,920
published the science is gonna have to

2212
01:23:08,950 --> 01:23:06,320
filter through the objectionable uh well

2213
01:23:11,110 --> 01:23:08,960
not the objectionable but the

2214
01:23:12,390 --> 01:23:11,120
the letters that are gonna bring up

2215
01:23:14,229 --> 01:23:12,400
these points and we're gonna have to

2216
01:23:15,750 --> 01:23:14,239
respond in a logical way but that really

2217
01:23:17,910 --> 01:23:15,760
doesn't settle anything those are

2218
01:23:19,669 --> 01:23:17,920
arguments about how many angels on the

2219
01:23:20,790 --> 01:23:19,679
head of a pin it really is

2220
01:23:21,750 --> 01:23:20,800
the only way this is going to get

2221
01:23:23,669 --> 01:23:21,760
settled

2222
01:23:26,310 --> 01:23:23,679
is if people reproduce these experiments

2223
01:23:28,229 --> 01:23:26,320
on their own or if we provide them with

2224
01:23:30,310 --> 01:23:28,239
the cells which we will probably do in

2225
01:23:31,830 --> 01:23:30,320
about a year we'll give them to a

2226
01:23:33,669 --> 01:23:31,840
culture collection

2227
01:23:35,189 --> 01:23:33,679
once we understand their physiology and

2228
01:23:36,870 --> 01:23:35,199
they know how to do it they're in the

2229
01:23:39,350 --> 01:23:36,880
public domain folks

2230
01:23:42,070 --> 01:23:39,360
this is taxpayer money

2231
01:23:44,790 --> 01:23:42,080
nasa and usgs provided this

2232
01:23:46,709 --> 01:23:44,800
enormous expense we went to this it cost

2233
01:23:48,709 --> 01:23:46,719
17.23

2234
01:23:50,550 --> 01:23:48,719
i'm sure they're arguing about that at

2235
01:23:53,270 --> 01:23:50,560
capitol hill right now but no i'm

2236
01:23:55,510 --> 01:23:53,280
serious uh it's in the public domain we

2237
01:23:58,149 --> 01:23:55,520
intend to deposit this

2238
01:24:00,870 --> 01:23:58,159
with at least two

2239
01:24:02,470 --> 01:24:00,880
cultural collections like atcc and dsmz

2240
01:24:04,229 --> 01:24:02,480
they'll be freely available to anybody

2241
01:24:05,430 --> 01:24:04,239
who wants to pursue them but the other

2242
01:24:07,350 --> 01:24:05,440
way

2243
01:24:09,189 --> 01:24:07,360
is to test cultures of

2244
01:24:12,310 --> 01:24:09,199
halamonis that are already in those

2245
01:24:15,590 --> 01:24:12,320
collections and see if they can do it or

2246
01:24:17,270 --> 01:24:15,600
go out on your own and isolate something

2247
01:24:19,510 --> 01:24:17,280
and get away from

2248
01:24:22,149 --> 01:24:19,520
being silico stuff and the stuff that

2249
01:24:24,149 --> 01:24:22,159
everybody's knows everything about and

2250
01:24:25,669 --> 01:24:24,159
have some adventure in your life okay so

2251
01:24:27,590 --> 01:24:25,679
i have one more question getting away

2252
01:24:31,350 --> 01:24:27,600
from the dna for a second you've got

2253
01:24:35,189 --> 01:24:32,870
now behave ron or you don't get your

2254
01:24:37,430 --> 01:24:35,199
lockies um

2255
01:24:39,189 --> 01:24:37,440
moving away from dna for a second

2256
01:24:41,510 --> 01:24:39,199
back to the first part of your talk when

2257
01:24:44,310 --> 01:24:41,520
you talked about both arsenic and

2258
01:24:46,790 --> 01:24:44,320
selenium and and organisms that can

2259
01:24:50,470 --> 01:24:46,800
metabolize them oxidize them or reduce

2260
01:24:55,110 --> 01:24:52,870
what i'm wondering is uh

2261
01:24:57,990 --> 01:24:55,120
are the has anybody ever looked to see

2262
01:25:00,070 --> 01:24:58,000
whether there's a chemotactic response

2263
01:25:01,830 --> 01:25:00,080
to some of these unusual like eric

2264
01:25:04,149 --> 01:25:01,840
lovely angio back there and yeah oh we

2265
01:25:05,030 --> 01:25:04,159
haven't uh it's certainly worth doing

2266
01:25:06,229 --> 01:25:05,040
it's

2267
01:25:08,790 --> 01:25:06,239
uh

2268
01:25:11,350 --> 01:25:08,800
a laundry list of things you know the

2269
01:25:12,790 --> 01:25:11,360
the arsenic selenium tellurium uh

2270
01:25:13,910 --> 01:25:12,800
antimony

2271
01:25:15,430 --> 01:25:13,920
are sort of at the bottom of the

2272
01:25:17,430 --> 01:25:15,440
periodic table there's not much further

2273
01:25:19,910 --> 01:25:17,440
you can go down there's bismuth and

2274
01:25:21,750 --> 01:25:19,920
there's polonium and

2275
01:25:23,990 --> 01:25:21,760
uh at the top of the periodic table is

2276
01:25:25,350 --> 01:25:24,000
where people have been focused that iron

2277
01:25:26,390 --> 01:25:25,360
and manganese have been around for a

2278
01:25:28,070 --> 01:25:26,400
long time

2279
01:25:28,790 --> 01:25:28,080
and big advances have been made there

2280
01:25:32,229 --> 01:25:28,800
but

2281
01:25:33,830 --> 01:25:32,239
uh there's been an uh for me an escape

2282
01:25:38,629 --> 01:25:33,840
to the areas that nobody's been working

2283
01:25:42,790 --> 01:25:40,790
competitors if you will but collegial

2284
01:25:44,629 --> 01:25:42,800
competitors that are fussing around with

2285
01:25:45,510 --> 01:25:44,639
this area it's not a big area

2286
01:25:46,870 --> 01:25:45,520
uh

2287
01:25:48,470 --> 01:25:46,880
because there's not that much antimony

2288
01:25:50,950 --> 01:25:48,480
out there there's nothing there's some

2289
01:25:53,110 --> 01:25:50,960
arsenic in certain places but if you go

2290
01:25:55,110 --> 01:25:53,120
to places like uh

2291
01:25:56,629 --> 01:25:55,120
aquifers where there's arsenic being

2292
01:25:58,709 --> 01:25:56,639
mobilized

2293
01:26:00,550 --> 01:25:58,719
uh and people are dying

2294
01:26:02,310 --> 01:26:00,560
it's still not a lot of arsenic

2295
01:26:04,229 --> 01:26:02,320
there's a heck of a lot more iron and

2296
01:26:07,430 --> 01:26:04,239
aluminum the most what's the most

2297
01:26:08,870 --> 01:26:07,440
abundant element in the earth's crust

2298
01:26:10,790 --> 01:26:08,880
anybody okay

2299
01:26:13,350 --> 01:26:10,800
time for one more question

2300
01:26:17,110 --> 01:26:15,110
thank you for giving me the mic it takes

2301
01:26:19,590 --> 01:26:17,120
a lot of courage sitting in an in an

2302
01:26:22,070 --> 01:26:19,600
auditorium field with scientists let me

2303
01:26:24,629 --> 01:26:22,080
confess to you i'm not a scientist i'm

2304
01:26:26,950 --> 01:26:24,639
an economist and an accountant

2305
01:26:29,189 --> 01:26:26,960
but when this news broke first

2306
01:26:30,790 --> 01:26:29,199
i already thought at nasa

2307
01:26:33,270 --> 01:26:30,800
and then i went home went back to the

2308
01:26:34,950 --> 01:26:33,280
internet and read some more about it

2309
01:26:37,189 --> 01:26:34,960
and ran into a theory that said the

2310
01:26:38,629 --> 01:26:37,199
white house called nasa to find out what

2311
01:26:41,189 --> 01:26:38,639
it is all about

2312
01:26:42,629 --> 01:26:41,199
that got my interest even higher and so

2313
01:26:45,030 --> 01:26:42,639
the announcement was made that you'll be

2314
01:26:47,590 --> 01:26:45,040
coming to talk to us today

2315
01:26:49,990 --> 01:26:47,600
i came in to see it to listen

2316
01:26:51,510 --> 01:26:50,000
and after hearing all this you made some

2317
01:26:53,990 --> 01:26:51,520
reference to

2318
01:26:56,070 --> 01:26:54,000
ancient textbooks old textbooks that

2319
01:26:59,189 --> 01:26:56,080
gave those six elements that you've all

2320
01:27:01,669 --> 01:26:59,199
accepted to be the basis of life from

2321
01:27:04,550 --> 01:27:01,679
carbon through to sulphur and then you

2322
01:27:06,390 --> 01:27:04,560
run into this new thing called arsenic

2323
01:27:08,070 --> 01:27:06,400
and you're wondering you seem so

2324
01:27:10,709 --> 01:27:08,080
surprised about it

2325
01:27:13,350 --> 01:27:10,719
what i as a non-scientist has ict and my

2326
01:27:15,350 --> 01:27:13,360
interest and curiosity picked

2327
01:27:18,790 --> 01:27:15,360
wondering is

2328
01:27:21,430 --> 01:27:18,800
would you all as scientists accept this

2329
01:27:22,870 --> 01:27:21,440
rather than being surprised accepted as

2330
01:27:25,189 --> 01:27:22,880
an invitation

2331
01:27:26,149 --> 01:27:25,199
that maybe you haven't even started the

2332
01:27:28,870 --> 01:27:26,159
journey

2333
01:27:31,910 --> 01:27:28,880
into untangling the mystery

2334
01:27:34,550 --> 01:27:31,920
of the richness of life itself that this

2335
01:27:36,149 --> 01:27:34,560
is your invitation to go further

2336
01:27:38,390 --> 01:27:36,159
explore

2337
01:27:39,510 --> 01:27:38,400
yes technology is wonderful like you've

2338
01:27:41,350 --> 01:27:39,520
mentioned

2339
01:27:43,990 --> 01:27:41,360
maybe scientists are drifting away from

2340
01:27:46,070 --> 01:27:44,000
the basics like you described

2341
01:27:47,750 --> 01:27:46,080
would you accept that this is maybe your

2342
01:27:49,750 --> 01:27:47,760
invitation to say hey

2343
01:27:51,669 --> 01:27:49,760
let's explore some more rather than

2344
01:27:53,990 --> 01:27:51,679
being surprised that you found this

2345
01:27:55,990 --> 01:27:54,000
wonderful new thing

2346
01:27:58,870 --> 01:27:56,000
that is that humbling invitation that

2347
01:28:00,950 --> 01:27:58,880
says let's go look deeply could you do

2348
01:28:03,750 --> 01:28:00,960
that i wish i were a scientist as a time

2349
01:28:05,990 --> 01:28:03,760
like this i wish i was a scientist

2350
01:28:08,229 --> 01:28:06,000
because i'd like to find out some what

2351
01:28:10,550 --> 01:28:08,239
in the world is going on here

2352
01:28:12,310 --> 01:28:10,560
and i have to look to you guys to do

2353
01:28:14,709 --> 01:28:12,320
that and this is really what i'm asking

2354
01:28:17,030 --> 01:28:14,719
you would you accept this invitation

2355
01:28:18,950 --> 01:28:17,040
rather than being surprised go and ask

2356
01:28:21,189 --> 01:28:18,960
some more questions to see what life

2357
01:28:23,030 --> 01:28:21,199
really is all about maybe it's more than

2358
01:28:25,990 --> 01:28:23,040
those six elements that you depend on

2359
01:28:29,750 --> 01:28:26,000
for all these years and textbooks

2360
01:28:33,910 --> 01:28:31,750
and i i'll ask you a question do you

2361
01:28:35,110 --> 01:28:33,920
should i buy gm now that it's on the

2362
01:28:38,229 --> 01:28:35,120
market

2363
01:28:40,390 --> 01:28:38,239
but no that was very very gracious uh uh

2364
01:28:43,430 --> 01:28:40,400
science works in a certain way it's it's

2365
01:28:45,430 --> 01:28:43,440
really human nature uh

2366
01:28:47,270 --> 01:28:45,440
it's resistant to change

2367
01:28:50,310 --> 01:28:47,280
and it's especially resistant to change

2368
01:28:51,669 --> 01:28:50,320
because if a new upsetting paradigm

2369
01:28:53,669 --> 01:28:51,679
comes in

2370
01:28:56,550 --> 01:28:53,679
there's strong pushback it has to work

2371
01:28:58,390 --> 01:28:56,560
this way so the the data coming in has

2372
01:29:00,790 --> 01:28:58,400
to break through that push back i think

2373
01:29:03,669 --> 01:29:00,800
we've crossed that threshold but there's

2374
01:29:05,030 --> 01:29:03,679
still going to be strong pushback over

2375
01:29:07,110 --> 01:29:05,040
time

2376
01:29:08,149 --> 01:29:07,120
that push back is going to be less

2377
01:29:10,149 --> 01:29:08,159
personal

2378
01:29:11,750 --> 01:29:10,159
and

2379
01:29:12,870 --> 01:29:11,760
more intriguing to the people who are

2380
01:29:14,229 --> 01:29:12,880
actually pushing back some of the

2381
01:29:17,030 --> 01:29:14,239
motivation

2382
01:29:19,110 --> 01:29:17,040
may be i'm going to prove him wrong

2383
01:29:21,990 --> 01:29:19,120
and i'm going to do it myself

2384
01:29:23,669 --> 01:29:22,000
and they may prove us wrong or

2385
01:29:25,430 --> 01:29:23,679
they may reproduce the results and find

2386
01:29:28,070 --> 01:29:25,440
new stuff that's just the way the

2387
01:29:30,070 --> 01:29:28,080
process works others

2388
01:29:31,510 --> 01:29:30,080
like it and may say i'm going to do this

2389
01:29:35,750 --> 01:29:31,520
right now along the lines we were

2390
01:29:38,790 --> 01:29:37,270
to anything that's really really

2391
01:29:41,270 --> 01:29:38,800
radically new

2392
01:29:43,830 --> 01:29:41,280
and it's part of the cleansing

2393
01:29:45,590 --> 01:29:43,840
process intellectually in science it has

2394
01:29:49,189 --> 01:29:45,600
to work this way

2395
01:29:50,709 --> 01:29:49,199
sometimes it's not exactly pleasant

2396
01:29:53,110 --> 01:29:50,719
in fact

2397
01:29:54,870 --> 01:29:53,120
i would have been very disappointed and

2398
01:29:56,229 --> 01:29:54,880
shocked if everybody said oh that's

2399
01:29:58,070 --> 01:29:56,239
really nice

2400
01:29:59,750 --> 01:29:58,080
they got a paper in science maybe they

2401
01:30:01,110 --> 01:29:59,760
have another paper let's go on and talk

2402
01:30:05,189 --> 01:30:01,120
about something else

2403
01:30:07,750 --> 01:30:05,830
and pushback

2404
01:30:09,030 --> 01:30:07,760
know when we got reviews back from

2405
01:30:11,110 --> 01:30:09,040
science

2406
01:30:13,030 --> 01:30:11,120
uh they were they were stellar

2407
01:30:16,470 --> 01:30:13,040
and i was very surprised but i'm not

2408
01:30:20,149 --> 01:30:16,480
surprised uh but by pushback from the

2409
01:30:22,629 --> 01:30:20,159
scientific community and and bloggers uh

2410
01:30:24,790 --> 01:30:22,639
that's part of the process uh but your

2411
01:30:27,030 --> 01:30:24,800
your comments are are very well taken

2412
01:30:28,950 --> 01:30:27,040
and really make me feel very warm thank

2413
01:30:31,270 --> 01:30:28,960
you sir

2414
01:30:32,709 --> 01:30:31,280
well let me uh switch gears here my name

2415
01:30:35,030 --> 01:30:32,719
is duane brown from the office of

2416
01:30:36,709 --> 01:30:35,040
communications and i happen to have the

2417
01:30:38,790 --> 01:30:36,719
honor of being the moderator for the

2418
01:30:40,470 --> 01:30:38,800
press conference that happened last week

2419
01:30:42,149 --> 01:30:40,480
and i want to thank ron can we give ron

2420
01:30:46,870 --> 01:30:42,159
another round of applause for coming

2421
01:30:51,510 --> 01:30:48,390
ron thank you for putting it in even a

2422
01:30:53,590 --> 01:30:51,520
bigger context and i can assure you uh

2423
01:30:55,669 --> 01:30:53,600
there will be more discussion on this

2424
01:30:57,189 --> 01:30:55,679
incredible finding and subject and

2425
01:30:58,550 --> 01:30:57,199
that's what scientists do and we thank